Clause 51
Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill [Lords]
12:15 pm
David Anderson (Blaydon, Labour)
I want to talk specifically about the situation of the land bordering Northern Ireland. As someone who has spent much of the last 20 years working in Northern Ireland, I am pleased by the progress that is being made. One of the great experiences of the last 10 years has been the fact that every time someone travels from Northern Ireland to the Republic, they no longer have to go through the checkpoints and controls that were once there. Despite the fact that the CTA was in place, it was routine for people to be stopped and searched. That was not because there was immigration control down that side; it was because it was our soldiers who had to do that. One of the great things is that that no longer happens. However, even with those things in place, there was clearly an easily accessible border, particularly for those who committed acts of terrorism. People were going backwards and forwards across the border with relative ease, even under those circumstances.
For the last four years, until January, I served on the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. Two years ago, we produced a report into serious organised crime, working with the security forces from north and south of the border, and from this side of the Irish sea. The difference between the Isle of Wight and the Isle of Man, and the Republic and Northern Ireland, is the very porous border. It is not only fuel that comes over the border, although illegal fuel smuggling has reduced. That is mainly because there is no longer the financial incentive, due to the coming together of the price of fuel in the Republic and in Northern Ireland, which is now much closer than it was two, three or four years ago.
Along with fuel, there were massive amounts of cigarettes, both real and counterfeit, and huge amounts of alcohol, particularly alcohol that had been laundered and was dangerous—even more dangerous than the alcohol most of us partake in. There were surprising things such as washing powder, huge amounts of which were being brought across the border and being sold on the cheap. It was not genuine. The boxes said what it was, but there were dubious articles inside. There was a huge traffic. There were also serious concerns about the amount of people who were being brought across the border due to people trafficking and, although not listed in the figures, there was a worry about illegal immigration.
Those are real issues that must be looked into. Those activities are happening despite the fact that we have probably the best co-operation anywhere in the world between the police force in Northern Ireland and the people in the Garda. Bodies work together at every level. Security bodies work together but this is still going on. The situation is very different from that in the rest of the country, and it must be looked at.
The issues that have been raised are real, and we must look at the practicality of what is being proposed. The Minister has been talking about specific intelligence, but the response given in the House of Lords when the Minister in the other place was pressed on what he meant and what would happen in practice, was that we would
“target the odd bus, minibus or taxi, because our experience has shown that those are much more likely to be a threat”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 1 April 2009; Vol. 709, c. 1100.]
That might work a little, but will it really get to grips with the problem? If the border is as porous as many of us believe, how will we make a real impact in practice? Unless the Minister intends to do this seriously—and nobody is suggesting that we have total control of the border—the reality is that we will waste our time. We need to look at that.
An issue has been raised by the hon. Member for Reigate about the possibility of racial profiling. That causes real concern to those of us in the House who are interested in human rights. The experience from Northern Ireland, where ad hoc checks have been going on for some time, has seen human rights bodies, from both sides of the border, raise concerns about the fact that people are being profiled, stopped and asked questions simply on the basis of the colour of their skin. That is something that I hope this Administration will never support.
There is a real need to do this and to do it right. However, in doing so, we must ensure that we respect the fact that there are practicality issues and that we get the balance right. However, we also have to be clear that we do not want to undermine the confidence that we have built up during the past decade among the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic. Not everyone who lives in Northern Ireland wants to be part of the United Kingdom. A significant minority in that part of the world do not want to be part of the United Kingdom and we have to respect that, as well as respecting the views of the other side.