Crispin Blunt (Shadow Minister, Home Affairs; Reigate, Conservative)

I want to follow up the arguments that have just been made by my hon. Friend the Member for Ashford and to invite the Minister to explain to the Committee what the powers will be used for. The clause takes powers to allow Her Majesty’s  inspectors of constabulary to take their responsibilities to the agency. My hon. Friend described the potential problems that could come from an agency looking in several different directions, to different sets of inspectors.

Can the Minister explain to the Committee what will happen in practice? What powers will be exercised by the inspectors of constabulary that will not be exercised by the chief inspector of the UK Border Agency or, indeed, HMIP? The clause is clear about the role of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Phil Woolas (Minister of State (also in the Home Office), Home Office; Oldham East & Saddleworth, Labour)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman and to the hon. Member for Ashford. I acknowledge that it is a balanced argument. My judgment was that, because there was a specific function of detention within UKBA, the inspectorate that should look at that function should be the one that is familiar with detention rather than the institutional inspectorate, if I can put it that way. I will not persuade the hon. Gentleman on that point—I can tell that by his face—so I will answer the question.

As the hon. Gentleman knows, Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary, the Scottish inspectors and the Northern Ireland inspectors carry out inspections of HMRC systems and procedures, including those in relation to HMRC’s custody facilities. In the future, those facilities will be shared between HMRC and UKBA. Therefore, it is essential to adjust the inspection regime to allow for the continuation of suitable arrangements for oversight. Under the clause, the same estate takes power to make regulations to confer functions on Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary, the Scottish inspectors and the Northern Ireland inspectors. That will enable the inspection of all immigration and customs work carried out on our behalf by UKBA.

Those regulations will establish the framework for commissioning and carrying out the relevant inspections. For example, they will provide for a report of any inspection to be made and, subject to any exceptions required or committed by the regulations, to be published, as well as for payment to be made, of course, to the inspectors.

These measures are designed, as are the other provisions in the clause dealing with inspection, to allow the continuation of existing oversight arrangements, but those arrangements will be adapted to reflect the provisions of part 1 of the Bill. So they do not represent a significant extension of existing roles. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s specific question, the Bill also provides that inspections carried out in accordance with regulations made under the clause may not address matters that are the responsibility of the Comptroller and Auditor General under section 6 of the National Audit Act 1983 and for any inspection or part of an inspection that is carried out in Scotland to be—

Crispin Blunt (Shadow Minister, Home Affairs; Reigate, Conservative)

I am grateful to the Minister for giving that explanation, some of which is found in the explanatory notes. However, I fear that I am not getting very much wiser about where the inspector of constabulary is going to work where the other inspectorates will not work. The Minister seems to have focused on detention facilities, where it would appear to be appropriate that Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons would normally be in the lead, but I am not clear as to when, in practice, the inspector of constabulary is going to be involved.

Phil Woolas (Minister of State (also in the Home Office), Home Office; Oldham East & Saddleworth, Labour)

There are a number of functions that Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary currently inspects, including customs detention facilities. The clause will enable the HMIC to carry on inspecting those functions. However, not all customs facilities are UKBA immigration and customs facilities; there are examples outside of those facilities. The explanatory notes do not go into detail on that issue, but that is the cover that we are trying to provide for ourselves.

For the record, I just want to point out that, as well as the exceptions for the Comptroller and Auditor General, there is the exception for any inspection or part of an inspection that is carried out in Scotland to be carried out jointly by HMIC and the Scottish inspectors.