Clause 21
Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill
1:00 pm
John Hayes (Shadow Minister, Innovation, Universities and Skills; South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
It is good to be back to our consideration of the Bill, Mrs. Humble. Our amendments would ensure that apprenticeship standards are what employers actually desire, and would result in less bureaucracy, because those standards would not have to be revisited in response to the concerns of employers. The employment body expressed support for amendments in that spirit during the evidence sessions, which I confess is partly why we are debating it now. The CBI representative said:
“priority for our members is to ensure that the apprenticeship programme encourages strong employer involvement and that the programme is more fit for purpose—delivering the sort of skills that are in demand by business”.
The spokesman went on to say:
“The introduction of apprenticeship standards and minimum periods of time off, for example, are making our members nervous”.
No doubt we shall discuss that later, when we come to the relevant parts of the Bill. The spokesman for CBI then said:
“Standards are fine. It is just specific standards for minimum periods of time off that are not needed. Each framework has to ensure that it accords to the blueprint at the moment.”——[Official Report, Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Public Bill Committee, 3 March 2009; c. 6-8, Q5, 12 and 19.]
I spoke earlier of the dynamic nature of skills needs and therefore the necessity of apprenticeship frameworks to respond to those changing needs. The best way for that to happen is for employers to be in the driving seat. The Minister has emphasised that he thinks so, too. For that reason, we share the view that sector skills councils are of pivotal importance. John Lucas of the British Chambers of Commerce added that he was positive about the planned increase in apprenticeships and that it was a
“long-term, positive thing for business and for the economy.”
He supported the comments of Richard Wainer of the CBI, but emphasised:
“We think that apprenticeships need to be employer led and employed focused. Obviously there has to be a high-quality programme element to them too.”——[Official Report, Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Public Bill Committee, 3 March 2009; c. 9, Q19.]
As I have said, we do not dispute that: it seems to be the orthodox view. What are apprenticeships if they are not things that appeal to employers as much as they appeal to learners? That is implicit. However, it is important that the consultation process on apprenticeship standards is right, and I am not sure that describing that process as being built on persons that the chief executive of Skills Funding thinks appropriate is as clear as saying that representatives of industry and education should be consulted. Why does the Minister consider that it is less important to consult those people than I do?