Jacqui Lait (Shadow Minister, Communities and Local Government; Beckenham, Conservative)

Given that the Committee has agreed that there should be an infrastructure planning commission, the provision for consultation with the IPC prior to public consultation is to be welcomed, and would seem to be good practice. It will be a big change for many people, because we are probably all aware that many planning departments and local authorities are so overwhelmed that they positively discourage discussions before an application. In principle, pre-consultation discussion between the promoter and the IPC is a good idea.

However, I would like the Minister to reassure us on one or two points. One is the extent of the application. Would an applicant find themselves in difficulty with the commission if it emerged later on that information the applicant may inadvertently not have realised was needed was not forthcoming? To get a positive response, any applicant would obviously want to be as forthcoming as possible but, with the best will in the world, there are times when new information appears. We have already discussed the potential impact of that situation, and I am sure we will refer to it again.

The other aspect is whether, in having these discussions with the commission, an applicant will be able to suggest that it would be helpful if none of the information gets into the public domain while they are still thinking about the application. In any well-managed project, it is crucial that the information is managed properly. Any  applicant will have serious experience of how that information should be managed. They could make inquiries of the IPC that are exceedingly sensitive. Such applicants would appreciate indications on the degree of confidentiality there would be for any question that they ask the IPC, however far-fetched and unlikely what they are talking about proves to be.

The applicant could be dealing with an area of new technology. We are not expecting that an application for a nuclear power station will suggest anything other than the tried and trusted technology. However, it is not impossible that somebody might manage to create nuclear fusion. Should there be a planning application for a nuclear fusion plant, it would be revolutionary and there would be implications for it. As I have said before, I am no scientist, but one can imagine that there would be implications for such an application that nobody has got their head around, other than those very bright people who can work out nuclear fusion. If there were such a proposal, an applicant would have to know that it would remain totally confidential at that stage.

I have given an extreme example, but it is not difficult to envisage a situation in which an applicant might wish to try out a new technology that would have implications beyond those that anybody with an interest in the land or any direct interest has thought about. It is that requirement for confidentiality about which I want the Minister to reassure us.

John Healey (Minister of State (Local Government), Department for Communities and Local Government; Wentworth, Labour)

The hon. Lady has set her concerns in such general terms that it is quite difficult for me to say that we can legislate to cover them. However, I will make two points in response. First, were someone to invent a nuclear fusion process, I doubt that the first people to hear about it would be members of the IPC in relation to a particular application. Were a new technology developed in the nuclear or the renewable sectors, there would be more of an issue over whether the relevant national policy statement was sufficiently comprehensive and up to date. Therefore, I think that the provisions of parts 1 and 2, in relation to national policy statements, are more relevant to her concerns than the problem of confidentiality.

Secondly, this is a quite narrow clause. It is about the duty of promoters to provide certain information to the commission in relation to the pre-application consultation. It is much more narrowly drawn than the general concern that the hon. Lady raises.

Jacqui Lait (Shadow Minister, Communities and Local Government; Beckenham, Conservative)

I am grateful to the Minister for those points. I understand the reason for the clause and do not think that we will vote against it because it is necessary. However, the Minister is dismissing my concerns too easily. I accept that if somebody were to come up with workable nuclear fusion, it would be all over the front pages of even the most popular newspapers. My inquiry was about the possible consequences, were a revolutionary new technology to be developed. If there was a nuclear fusion plant, the whole of the grid could be affected. That would have serious implications. If an applicant went to the IPC, he would want that to remain confidential.

I am speaking in broad terms. Often it could be a very little thing. The implication of a development  could have an impact that no one had considered because—although I cannot believe that this would happen—the applicant had discovered that the site contained some unique flora or fauna. My hon. Friend the Member for Newbury mentioned the Newbury bypass on several occasions. That road was held up on just that sort of basis and we have seen it time and time again.. I can accept what the Minister is saying in principle, but I seek an assurance that the IPC’s code of conduct will have serious controls over confidentiality.

John Healey (Minister of State (Local Government), Department for Communities and Local Government; Wentworth, Labour)

I think I understand the hon. Lady’s concerns although I do not share them either in general terms or in relation to the adequacy of the Bill. We will shortly debate aspects of clause 45(4), which allows the Secretary of State to make regulations about whether information about a request by a promoter for advice must or may be disclosed. I do not entirely share the hon. Lady’s concern because the developer will have to make public such information as is needed to undertake a proper consultation and to allow the public and others with an interest to understand fully and come to a view of the nature of the application. The IPC will want to ensure that that happens. I understand what she is saying about confidentiality for the developer, but he will have to disclose the range of relevant information so that people can understand what is likely to be proposed. I should have thought that the hon. Lady and the Committee would wish to see us insist on that as we try to do in the Bill.

Jacqui Lait (Shadow Minister, Communities and Local Government; Beckenham, Conservative)

I am sorry that this is turning into a bit of dialogue. I will try to draw it to a conclusion. A developer would wish to be in control of the information process. He would not wish to be driven by the inadvertent disclosure of information by the IPC before he wanted it to come into the public domain. That is where the confidentiality is. I am assuming that a developer will go to the IPC before he goes to public consultation, so the IPC will have prior information. But it is surely not for the IPC to publish such information. It should remain in the control of the developer. If the IPC is not under a strict regime of confidentiality, that information stream would be affected. That is why I am so concerned to have assurances from the Minister that the IPC would be bound by confidentiality.

John Healey (Minister of State (Local Government), Department for Communities and Local Government; Wentworth, Labour)

I have no interest in keeping this dialogue going unnecessarily and if it helps the hon. Lady, I will reflect on what she said. But at the pre-application stage the promoter has responsibility for the materials that are produced. It is his responsibility to ensure that the consultation is thorough and properly conducted. The commission has the role of offering advice on that, which promoters would want to follow. It is not the commission’s responsibility to produce information on the consultation. That is rightly the promoter’s responsibility. I will reflect further on what the hon. Lady said about confidentiality and if there is a serious concern we will return to it later.