John Butterfill (Bournemouth West, Conservative)

Before we begin, I will make some preliminary announcements. First, hon. and right hon. Members may remove their jackets during Committee sittings if they wish. Please ensure that all mobile phones, pagers and any other things that are likely to make a noise are switched to silent mode or switched off. There is a money resolution and a Ways and Means resolution and copies are available in the room. I assume that they are in the centre and at the side.

I remind hon. Members that, as a general rule, adequate notice must be given of amendments. My fellow Chairman and I do not intend to call starred amendments, including any that might be reached in an afternoon sitting. I also remind hon. Members that this is one of three Bills in this Session that has been selected for a further experiment with explanatory statements on amendments. All members of the Committee have been sent a leaflet giving further details of the experiment. Copies of the leaflet are available in the Committee Room and in the Public Bill Office. Hon. Members might also wish to seek advice from the Clerk of the Committee.

We are still in the early stages of taking oral evidence in Public Bill Committees. This is my first experience of it, so we are all on a learning curve. It might help if I explain briefly what is proposed, so that we are all clear. First, the Committee will be asked to consider the programme motion on the amendment paper, for which debate is limited to half an hour. We will then proceed to a motion to report written evidence and a motion to permit the Committee to deliberate in private in advance of the oral evidence sessions, which I hope that we can move formally. Assuming that that motion is agreed to, the Committee will move to a private sitting. Once the Committee has deliberated, the witnesses and members of the public will be invited back into the room and our oral evidence session will commence. If the Committee agrees to the programme motion, the Committee will hear oral evidence today and on Thursday before reverting next week to the more familiar proceedings of clause-by-clause scrutiny.

John Healey (Minister of State (Local Government), Department for Communities and Local Government; Wentworth, Labour)

Thank you, Sir John.

Alun Michael (Cardiff South & Penarth, Labour)

On a point of order, Sir John. As I indicated before the sitting started, I am very concerned about some processes and the way in which papers are reaching members of the Committee. I understand the ambitions underlying the process that we are following. This is the second Committee that I have sat on that has followed the new process and it is the second that seems to me to be overwhelmed by large numbers of contributions and pieces of paper arriving at very short  notice. It seems to me that the whole process will be hauled into disrepute before the experiment is properly under way if we do not get a grip on the process now.

This issue goes beyond the pressure that is being placed on members of the Committee to the wider issue of how the House handles the experiment and tries to make it a positive one. Last night, a couple of megabytes of contributions relevant to today’s proceedings were sent to us by e-mail, with a note saying that it was on the board. That is a fat lot of use if we do not see the information until after the 10 o’clock process. Most of us do not sit in our offices waiting for e-mails to pop up and indicate that this one element of our responsibilities in the House requires our undivided attention and that everything else should be abandoned. Normally, we ought to have papers by at least the Thursday before a sitting in order to have the opportunity to read them, as many of us do, over the weekend, rather than during the pressures of the working week.

Something therefore needs to be done now to ensure that the deadline for submissions is well in advance of Committee sittings, so that papers can come to hon. Members in a timely manner, and that the Committee is not pushed from pillar to post, which is certainly what happened with the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill Committee, for instance, for which additional evidence-hearing sessions had to be added at the last minute. It is also unfair to the staff of the House, who I appreciate are trying to get information to us, and to serve the public as they try to put evidence to us in a proper and timely manner. They cannot do that in the seemingly rather chaotic current situation.

John Butterfill (Bournemouth West, Conservative)

The right hon. Gentleman makes a relevant and serious point. We are in the process of developing such procedures, so I apologise on behalf of the authorities that the papers have arrived somewhat later than we would ideally have liked. Two things arise from that. First, when sittings such as this take place immediately after a recess, we ought to consider the possibility of papers being sent to hon. Members’ homes during the recess. It would be helpful to everyone if right hon. and hon. Members could advise the Clerks where they are likely to be during recesses, because it will be no use sending papers to hon. Members’ homes if they are going to be somewhere else. If they will be somewhere where the papers could be sent, we should look at that seriously for the future.

We will have to consider further the question of a timetable. The whole idea is to invite public participation in our processes, so I would not want to set a time restriction which meant that some people were not able to make important contributions for our consideration. However, we will look at the possibility of a timetable for the future.

John Healey (Minister of State (Local Government), Department for Communities and Local Government; Wentworth, Labour)

I beg to move,

That—

(1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at 10.30 a.m. on Tuesday 8th January) meet—

(a) at 4.00 p.m. on Tuesday 8th January;

(b) at 9.00 a.m. and 1.00 p.m. on Thursday 10th January;

(c) at 10.30 a.m. and 4.00 p.m. on Tuesday 15th January;

(d) at 9.00 a.m. and 1.00 p.m. on Thursday 17th January;

(e) at 10.30 a.m. and 4.00 p.m. on Tuesday 22nd January;

(f) at 9.00 a.m. and 1.00 p.m. on Thursday 24th January;

(g) at 10.30 a.m. and 4.00 p.m. on Tuesday 29th January;

(h) at 9.00 a.m. and 1.00 p.m. on Thursday 31st January;

(i) at 10.30 a.m. and 4.00 p.m. on Tuesday 5th February;

(2) the Committee shall hear oral evidence in accordance with the following Table:

TABLE

Jacqui Lait (Shadow Minister, Communities and Local Government; Beckenham, Conservative)

I add my welcome, Sir John, to that of the Minister. I have never had the privilege of sitting under your chairmanship, but am looking forward to it and to a robust debate on the Bill, which has, as the Minister said, generated a great deal of interest. With regard to this particular procedure, I am the third novice. I am looking forward to it very much and hope that it will be enlightening. I hope that, towards the end of our consideration in Committee, Sir John, you will invite us to reflect on our experience of this new procedure so that we can develop it in a way that helps the House, as taking evidence from interested bodies is a useful innovation and one that we wish to encourage to work well.

The official Opposition have no objection to the proposals before us. We are looking forward to some robust debates and exchanges of views and hope that the Government will take on board all of our points.

Tom Brake (Shadow Minister, Department for Communities and Local Government; Carshalton & Wallington, Liberal Democrat)

I, too, echo the welcome made to you, Sir John, by the Minister and the hon. Member for Beckenham. I am sure that you will provide us with appropriate leadership during our deliberations. We are fully signed up to the programme motion and believe that it is adequate for addressing the concerns that we have about the Bill, providing of course that the Minister responds generously to the many requests for improvements to the Bill that will be made from all parts of the Committee during our deliberations.

John Butterfill (Bournemouth West, Conservative)

Copies of any memorandums that the Committee receives will be made available in the Committee Room.