Stephen O'Brien (Shadow Minister, Health; Eddisbury, Conservative)

Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire, Conservative)

It is a convention—and also heartfelt from me—to say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Conway.

As my hon. Friend said, the schedule provides for the transfer of the property, rights and liabilities of the various bodies affected by the Bill—in the case of Wales, the Mental Health Act Commission. I should like to ask the Minister a few brief questions about how the Bill applies to Wales, with a view to helping the scrutiny process. Those who follow closely the proceedings of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, as I am sure many do, will know that the quality of scrutiny given to legislation made here that affects Wales, particularly framework legislation and the new legislative competence orders, is a live question.

Although Members from all parties might feel comfortable devolving further functions and powers to Welsh Ministers as part of the ongoing devolution process, it is surely incumbent on us to ensure that there is the best possible scrutiny at an early stage. To that end, will the Minister update the Committee on the discussions that he and his officials have had with Welsh Assembly Ministers about how the Bill will apply to Wales? Specifically, what does he understand the property, rights and liabilities of MHAC in Wales to be? Did Welsh Ministers, during his discussions with them, identify any additional resources that they would need to be able properly to fulfil their new functions and powers under the Bill?

Given the benefit that the Minister anticipates the creation of the new independent and integrated Care Quality Commission will achieve in England, my main question and concern about the application of the Bill to Wales is how comfortable he is about investing Welsh Ministers with many of the relevant functions, and the extent to which he thinks that the spirit of independence that has been discussed in relation to the CQC in England will be observed in Wales. Perhaps he will update us on what Welsh Ministers have said and on how they intend to use the powers to ensure that people in the Principality benefit to the same extent as those in England from the new provisions in the Bill.

Ben Bradshaw (Minister of State (Health Services; Minister for the South West), Department of Health; Exeter, Labour)

I regret that I do not have to hand the exact figures on liabilities and the length of the leases of various buildings, but I have written to Committee members following last Thursday’s sitting when evidence was taken about costs. If the Committee so desires, I can hold on to that letter a little longer and add some of the detail that has been requested, or send the first letter and include in a further letter some of the issues of liability in as much detail as we can gather in the time. Does the hon. Member for Eddisbury have a preference on that?

Stephen O'Brien (Shadow Minister, Health; Eddisbury, Conservative)

I am most grateful for the Minister’s offer, and indeed for allowing us to express a preference. It would be very helpful to us, in getting a handle on the issue, if he would send the letter that he has taken the trouble to put together as soon as possible, and send a further letter when the other details are to hand, so that we can give the matter proper consideration.

Ben Bradshaw (Minister of State (Health Services; Minister for the South West), Department of Health; Exeter, Labour)

On the questions about Wales, hon. Members will know that the Care Quality Commission covers England only, but the MHAC is, I am advised, covered in clause 48(3). Again, I shall perhaps add a few lines on Welsh issues for members of the  Committee, although we have liaised closely with Ministers and colleagues in the Welsh Assembly Government throughout the development of policy on the Bill. They are happy with the provisions, and so are we.

Anne Milton (Shadow Minister, Health; Guildford, Conservative)

Will the Minister give us—he did not mention this—the figures on the loss of staff? That came up during evidence sittings. It is a crucial matter in the transition period and it is extremely important for the Committee to hear how many staff have already been lost.

Ben Bradshaw (Minister of State (Health Services; Minister for the South West), Department of Health; Exeter, Labour)

Yes. I am happy to do that.