New Clause 5
Employment Bill [Lords]
3:15 pm
Michael Jabez Foster (Hastings and Rye, Labour)
From experience, I take issue with the hon. Gentleman’s claim that the majority of claimants who fail are vexatious. That is not the case. The majority who fail misunderstand the situation. Some are vexatious, but as he rightly points out, the rules already exist. For many reasons, I strongly oppose cost orders being made against every losing litigant, which is what he is calling for.
Let us be clear: tribunals are not courts of law. They may be becoming so and that is unfortunate. The purpose of the tribunal system was that a layman could go along and do his stuff. He could explain what happened and the tribunal chair or others would assist. If anything is to be done, and if I were advising the Minister, I would suggest throwing away the tribunal rules and starting again.
The process has become far too complex and that is why it has become so costly. The figures given by the hon. Gentleman for the average cost of proceedings are probably about right because of the complexities. Every time that the rules are changed, they become more complex, more difficult and simply not understandable to the average litigant. For that reason, claims are often brought not because of vexatious behaviour, but because people do not understand the situation properly. That would be my plea. To penalise someone who believes that they have a reasonable claim, of whatever nature, seems to be wrong in principle. It would deter people who had genuine grievances.
I am sympathetic to the small employer, and I realise that requirements create a great burden. In the main part, most or many of them are insured, but when that is not the case, it can be a problem. However, the litigant or applicant, who may have lost a job through unfair dismissal, will not have any resources, unless they can persuade the citizens advice bureau to take on the case for them. Incidentally, yesterday I wrongly took the lead from an Opposition Member in saying that citizens advice bureaux do not assist employers. Citizens Advice has written to me today to say that it is very happy to help small employers, as well as employees, in seeking legal advice.
I very much hope that the Minister will reject the proposal in all cases, although I agree that, where there is genuine vexatious conduct by either party, it should be properly penalised.