Clause 10
Employment Bill [Lords]
12:30 pm
Jonathan Djanogly (Shadow Minister, Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform; Huntingdon, Conservative)
I beg to move amendment No. 15, in clause 10, page 13, line 30, after ‘them’, insert
‘if copying facilities are not available at that place’.
We are still dealing with the national minimum wage and the parts of it that deal with compliance. Let me say first that, despite whatever appeared in the Sunday Mirror, the position of the Conservative party is that given our support for the national minimum wage, to the extent that people want to break the law and not pay it, we are concerned for the rights of the employees and also for the rights of those employers who are not breaking the law and who are put at a competitive disadvantage as a result.
Our concerns about clause 5 and also about clause 11 fall into two different categories. First, we are concerned whether the provisions are proportionate in cases where civil liberties would be reduced as a result of them. Secondly, we have a more practical issue: we need to look slightly further to examine whether they will actually work and improve the current failings in the system. The second set of concerns is probably more suited to a stand part debate on clause 11, so we will come back to it then. The amendment, which is a probing amendment, is more closely related to the first category of concerns. It aims to limit the right for compliance officers to remove documents to those situations where it is the only practical way for them to continue their investigation.
The rule of law in this country maintains that we are innocent until proven guilty. To that end, compliance officers should not be able to infringe the rights of employers to run their business unmolested by Government agencies unless it is absolutely necessary. Given the expansion of technology in offices in the last decade and the availability of photocopiers, should officers not be encouraged, where practical, to take copies of relevant documents rather that removing originals in a way that might disrupt the running of the business? That is the nub of the amendment.
There was discussion in the other place of the need for these powers to ensure full and effective enforcement of the national minimum wage regulations. However, I must confess to having some scepticism about that assertion. I would have thought that the copying of documents should be the starting point and original documents should only be removed from offices if all other avenues have failed.
Given the possible significant disruptive effect of these powers, I would be grateful if the Minister could provide us with some figures for the number of occasions when the lack of copying facilities has prevented an enforcement action. It is important that we weigh the right of the business to operate unmolested by the state against the need for effective enforcement.