Clause 45
Education and Skills Bill
2:30 pm
David Laws (Shadow Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families, Children, Schools and Families; Yeovil, Liberal Democrat)
There is no point in the Minister sighing at the thought of me speaking. After all, I am going to speak to amendment No. 81, as it would be somewhat negligent not to since I tabled it and it has been selected for debate. The amendment would delete lines 30 and 31 from clause 45 and thereby prevent someone from facing a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale. The hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings will agree with that aim.
We come back, as the hon. Gentleman did, to a good many of the representations about these clauses that were received from all sorts of organisations that work with young people, and even by some of those who support the Bill and the element of compulsion contained within it. The Children’s Rights Alliance for England is clearly opposed to the provisions in this part of the Bill. The British Youth Council made it clear that it was opposed to the clauses that impose penalty fines on young people.
Rainer, too, has made representations to the Committee to say that it is concerned about the proposals in clauses 45 to 48. In the useful briefing note that it provided on Second Reading, Rainer pointed out that when it discussed that aspect of the Bill with young people, it was understandably the part that caused young people the most concern and anger. The feeling was that imposing fines and criminal sanctions on young people who may, in many senses, already be marginalised will be of very little value and in some cases will actually be counter-productive. The Rainer briefing paper quotes one young person who was consulted on the issue, who said:
“The whole point is to get a better job. How are you going to do that with a criminal record?”
Rainer believes that the proposals, and the fines contained within them,
“are likely to be particularly damaging for those who have struggled in or disengaged from mainstream education.”
An interesting part of the briefing sets out Rainer’s thoughts on how the Government might reframe some of the responsibilities in a way that would be more positive, and whether the sanctions regime could be reformulated to be more rational and acceptable to young people. Rainer says that the overwhelming majority of young people that it spoke to thought it appropriate that they should face the consequences for non-attendance, but felt that
“the only suitable penalty would be withdrawing financial incentives and support (such as free public transportation, or enhanced benefit payments) for taking part”
in the courses in question. Rainer said that those incentives could be regained by somebody who then re-engaged in education and training.
We know from a previous debate that the Government are reticent about stating their intentions for the future financial framework of incentives and support for young people. Indeed, some of the comments by Ministers and officials on the record even suggest that the Government are looking at the future of the educational maintenance allowance. I wonder whether that is something that the Government might be planning to get rid of, phase out or reduce. I think that we heard from the Minister during earlier questioning that the Government are committed to keeping the EMA, but they have left open what other forms of financial support there may be for young people who have to comply with the Bill. I cannot recall when the Minister said he would be in a position to tell us about the financial support structures that will be in place after 2013. I have a feeling that it would not be for some time.
Since I have a feeling that the Minister may not be inclined to accept all of the amendments today, I wonder whether we might persuade him first, to give some indication of when he or his successors will be in a position to say what the financial support arrangements will be for young people. Secondly, would he be willing to consider a process of sanctioning, as Rainer and young people have suggested, using the withdrawal of financial benefits for engaging in education and training, rather than this heavy-handed method of imposing fines on young people? In many cases they could not afford to pay, given the income of many young people and the fact that parents will be unwilling, or in some cases unable, to pay the fines. That could lead to criminalisation, which could then make those young people even less willing to engage, and less attractive to future employers.
If the Minister is not inclined to accept all of the amendments today, will he tell us when the Government will be in a position to say more about the financial support mechanisms and whether there is any possibility of adopting a more rational and more liberal approach—I will not say a high Tory approach, because I am not sure what the high Tory position on these matters would be—that was more positive and based more on providing incentives and support for young people, rather than the sanctions and penalties that are contained in the clauses?