Clause 78
Climate Change Bill [Lords]
4:49 pm
Phil Woolas (Minister of State (Environment), Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Oldham East and Saddleworth, Labour)
Having failed to persuade the hon. Member for Cheltenham of the force of my argument, I will attempt to redeem myself by seeking consensus on amendments Nos. 27 and 28. These are minor, technical amendments. Clause 78 allows the Government and the devolved Administrations to purchase carbon units which, at the moment, is not allowed. Those could be used to help meet the targets in the Bill or to offset emissions from the central Government office estate.
I will explain the underlying legal position. The purpose of the clause is not to give Ministers and Departments the power to buy and dispose of carbon units—they can already do that under general law in the same way that I and other hon. Members have the inherent power to buy and sell things. We do not need an Act of Parliament to give us that power. However, if this Bill becomes an Act, the purchase of units could become a source of significant and ongoing expenditure. By convention, parliamentary approval through such a clause is needed to authorise such expenditure. The position is slightly different for the Welsh Ministers who, unlike other Ministers, have only those powers conferred upon them by statute and the clause is necessary for that reason.
Amendment No. 27 broadens that power and allows for the acquisition and disposal of carbon units and interests in carbon units. Interests in carbon units includes the ability to enter into futures contracts to acquire units at a later date based on a fixed price at the date of the agreement. It also provides the power to dispose of carbon units or interests in them, and will ensure that the UK and devolved Ministers have the power to buy and sell carbon units or contracts relating to them. That power exists anyway and this is not a debate about first principle. However, given that the power to acquire them is expressly mentioned, it made sense to put the point beyond any doubt.