Schedule 2
Climate Change Bill [Lords]
1:45 pm
Phil Woolas (Minister of State (Environment), Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Oldham East and Saddleworth, Labour)
The point that the hon. Member for Cheltenham made is right: perhaps carbon reduction commitment is a misnomer. It is intended primarily as an energy efficiency measure because it measures energy use, rather than direct emissions—it is a proxy for emissions. Conceptually, the carbon reduction commitment lies underneath the climate change agreements and brings in the mid-ranging organisations. Fifty per cent. of emissions in the UK are covered by the ETS and we are trying to bring in other organisations, such as large energy users. Increasing energy prices may change the relationship.
The difficulty, however, and the answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question, philosophically, is double counting. One must ensure that the mother scheme—if I may use that phrase; I think I can—or the parent scheme that caps emissions is not undermined by the carbon reduction commitment that lies underneath it. To follow the logic of the hon. Gentleman’s argument, if there was a way of measuring direct emissions from the use of energy by mid-ranking organisations, one could have a subservient direct emissions cap and trading scheme, but there remains the issue of double counting. I shall give him the technical explanation in a minute, but bearing in mind his point about needing to take account of where we get our energy from within the carbon reduction commitment, we are trying to provide an incentive to energy efficiency, which I know he supports.