New Clause 4
Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill [Lords]
1:30 pm
Vera Baird (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Constitutional Affairs; Redcar, Labour)
It certainly does not seem to attach to one particular part of the Bill, although the hon. Gentleman has mostly talked about attachment of earnings orders, so that is perhaps what he is primarily concerned about.
Similar amendments were tabled in Grand Committee in the Lords by the hon. Gentleman’s noble Friend Lord Kingsland. We understood then that the amendments had come from a lobby group that was worried about the rise in creditors and thought that indebtedness should be assessed at household level rather than that of the debtor. If that is the hon. Gentleman’s purpose, we are deeply opposed to it. It should be the debtor and the debtor’s income only that are taken into account.
Let me make a slightly more technical point. The way in which deductions are calculated for all varieties of attachment of earnings order are in the Attachment of Earnings Act 1971. The new clause, standing free in the Bill, would not interface with that Act. Attachment of earnings orders are used by lots of Departments and many branches of the judicial system, and not only by those with which we are dealing. We run the risk of a fundamental change to the law having an effect on those areas outside this Department’s remit.
The proposal would replace the existing attachment of earnings order system with fixed tables. The court would not determine the debtor’s means exactly, as such, and it would be the debtor’s earnings from which the deductions were made by the employer. There are obvious practical reasons why that would be difficult to change, but there are legal principles, too. When an attachment of earnings order or any form of execution are concerned, we should consider the debtor’s income, because it is their debt. That seems central to us; it should not relate to other income in the household. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman appreciated that that would follow, because what is being spoken of is household income.
The problem is that if I, as a mother, had a debt and my grown-up sons lived with me, they would have to submit to an assessment under the provision to see whether it would be appropriate for their income to be lent to me to get rid of my debt. What should be considered is what I am earning and at what rate I can pay off the debts. That is the mischief of the new clause, and I hope that I have made that clear. A new means form will be developed for the attachment of earnings procedures, which will cover lots of information. I imagine that it will cover all the information that anybody would wish it to. The court will carry out a thorough investigation before it makes any orders at all.
I hope that I have satisfied the hon. Gentleman that the proposal is mischievous rather than helpful, and that there are satisfactory provisions in place that will be superseded by a thorough means form. It will ensure that appropriate generosity is given to poor debtors and that appropriate, fair enforcement is provided for creditors.