New Clause 4
Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Bill
4:30 pm
Paul Goggins (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Northern Ireland Office; Wythenshawe and Sale East, Labour)
My hon. Friend the Member for Foyle has raised a matter that clearly requires urgent consideration, as we move gradually towards full support for policing, the rule of law and devolved government. I warmly welcome the remarks of the hon. Member for East Antrim, who said this afternoon—not for the first time—that his party agrees with and wants the devolution of justice and policing. Of course, as I set out in the St. Andrews agreement, the Government believe that if we have full support for the rule of law, policing and the courts, and if we get the election and devolved government, we can devolve policing and justice by May 2008. That is possible so long as all parties work in good faith towards that end.
My hon. Friend invites the Committee to overturn Parliament’s decision on the provisions for the devolution of policing and justice. Of course I shall argue against that and will encourage the Committee not to accept his arguments. It has always been the Government’s position that policing and justice can be devolved only on a sustainable basis with broad, cross-community support. Consistent with that position, it is our view that the support of a majority of both sectors of the community in Northern Ireland is essential if the devolution of policing and justice is to succeed. That is why section 16 of the Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2006 makes it clear that the Secretary of State cannot introduce an order to devolve policing and justice unless both the following conditions are met: the motion asking that he do so is tabled by the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister acting jointly and that motion receives support in the Assembly from a majority of designated nationalists and a majority of designated unionists—the so-called 50:50:50 method.
The hon. Member for East Antrim was right. Because the issue is controversial—it goes to the heart of confidence in policing and sustainable democratic, peaceful conditions in Northern Ireland—it is right that a higher threshold be set in relation to it than is, perhaps, the case for the devolution of other matters. We make no apology for that. It is clear; it is in the legislation; and most importantly, it can be done if the parties act in good faith and work together to ensure that it can happen.
Let me make one final point, which might help the Committee. The transitional Assembly’s programme for government committee sub-group on policing and justice, which I had the pleasure of engaging with a few days ago, is considering various departmental models to support policing and justice once they have been devolved. As part of that, it is considering a paper that was put to it in December by my right hon. Friendthe Secretary of State, which sets out a further departmental model that might be capable of commanding support across the parties. The sub-group has not yet come forward with any conclusions. It might do so in the near future, and if it does, Ministers will need to give urgent and careful consideration to what action the Government may need to take in light of those findings, conclusions and recommendations. I draw that to the Committee’s attention as a matter of courtesy, because it might be necessary to return to those issues on Report and to debate matters that have not arisen in Committee.