New Clause 1
Further Education and Training Bill [Lords]
9:30 am
Bill Rammell (Minister of State (Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education), Department for Education and Skills; Harlow, Labour)
It is. For the record, the scope of the power would be limited to senior post holders designated under the instruments and articles. Typically, that would include principals and directors, not teaching staff or lecturers. I will comment on that when I respond to the remarks of my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby. The contention of the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings, who is leading for the Opposition, is that the powers are not necessary in any circumstances and that, in every eventuality, we should trust the college and the college governing body to tackle such problems. I think back to the experience in the late 1980s and early 1990s, immediately after incorporation. If the Government had had these powers for intervention in extremis, there would not have been the kind of problems and abuses that existed at that stage. For the record, the Conservative party was in power then and responsible for such issues.
The hon. Gentleman said that the existing powers have not been used. I have no problem with that. In fact, I hope that the new powers will not be used. They are powers to deter and to ensure that the governing body and the college take responsibility for their actions.
I repeat that we have had an important and reasoned debate. The Government have responded to concerns that have been expressed, and we have managed to satisfy the Association of Colleges, which has written to me explicitly supporting our proposals. In those circumstances, I do not understand why the Opposition cannot support our position, unless they are in the business of opposition for opposition’s sake.
The hon. Member for Brent, East asked whether it was right that the Learning and Skills Council should have responsibility for such matters given that there is a policy thrust towards self-regulation. It is certainly the case that the proposals that Sir George Sweeney made for self-regulation—proposals that I asked him to put forward—envisage circumstances in which colleges take greater collective responsibility for self-policing, for want of a better phrase. That would be good and healthy. Just as I want individual governing bodies to take responsibility for dealing with poor performance, I would regard it as a healthy development if colleges collectively could take on that responsibility.
However, we would still want to have the longstop power, in extremis, if a college governing body, the Association of Colleges collectively or whoever else has not dealt with an issue. Because of our responsibilities for the public purse and the public interest and, most importantly, to the learners who are affected, we would want longstop powers in extremis.