Clause 3
Fraud (Trials without a Jury) Bill
12:30 pm
Simon Hughes (Shadow Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs & Shadow Attorney General, Constitutional Affairs; North Southwark and Bermondsey, Liberal Democrat)
The Minister made the general point, but can she tell us, just so that we are all clear, what exactly the Government are proposing for Northern Ireland? We have not heard that from Ministers, and it is relevant. They are proposing changes to the criminal justice system. I do not pretend to be an expert yet, because I have not looked at the Bill in detail, so it would be helpful to know what they propose. We could then form a judgment about whether it is appropriate to link it with this provision.
Secondly, another relevant point about full criminality has been raised. I absolutely support the argument that the right hon. and learned Gentleman made. In addition, it is an argument applicable not only to the criminal law in that context but, for example, to fraud or financial insider dealing. One does not list every offence for some horrible sex offender and bring to court all the victims. Strong cases are taken, such offenders are convicted, and they will then ask for further offences to be taken into consideration. Those cases can then be taken off the file, as it were. That is absolutely normal for a taking and driving away, as it used to be called, or for a burglary or shoplifting offence. By definition, the full criminality never gets to the jury, because it does not need to.
There is a verdict of guilty and one of not guilty; there is a maximum sentence set by Parliament, and that maximum is the same whether an offender commits one of those offences or seven of them. The last bit of the full criminality emerges between conviction and sentence, when matters of previous conviction are read out and litigation is done. We have the process for dealing with that, and it could not be otherwise, or the courts would come to a grinding halt, and many people would be put to particular disadvantage by having to give evidence and take time being exposed to cross-examination, when the case does not need them to be brought to the witness stand.