Clause 15
Welfare Reform Bill
11:00 am
Jim Murphy (Minister of State (Work), Department for Work and Pensions; East Renfrewshire, Labour)
I did not think that I could be outdone in my obsequiousness to my hon. Friend. I am sure that young Orla, as she grows up, will be given a transcript of these proceedings as a keepsake. I hope that it does not have too much of an impact on her in later life.
I shall deal with the points raised in the probing amendment, but first I thank the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey for his comments about the Government’s general approach to contracting out, which we will have an opportunity to discuss in more detail later in the clause. He is right in saying that it is important that we harness the creativity, skill and experience in the private and voluntary sectors as we roll out pathways and other labour market interventions and welfare to work services. It is increasingly important that we utilise the capacity in the private and voluntary sectors.
On the probing amendment, we believe that, in the contracting out of such services, private and voluntary sector organisations should be given the full range of tools available to help and encourage people into the right kinds of training and support. Through the experience of Jobcentre Plus and Jobcentre Plus-led pathways, we know that personal advisers can strike up a close working relationship with the customers that they advise.
It is important that we retain the power in clause 15 because the detailed knowledge of customers’ circumstances and support needs and other inside information that the personal advisers can obtain and reflect on, puts them in a strong position to make a decision on whether a particular work-focused activity would be ineffective or inappropriate for their customer. That applies whether the personal adviser works within the Jobcentre Plus or private and voluntary sector pathways.
The decision to apply a direction in itself will not lead to sanctions. It is important to put that on the record and I think that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State alluded to it earlier. The decision to apply a direction is completely separate and has separate appeal rights. Removing the ability of personal advisers employed by contractors to apply directions would place an administrative burden on the contractor and Jobcentre Plus requiring further complicated hand-offs and transfers of information, which would delay decision making and increase the chances of mistakes. So it is important that we have that consistent process from end to end.
Of course, we will need to ensure that such directions are applied consistently and fairly and we will work with providers to ensure that that is indeed the case. Furthermore, regulations will set out clearly exactly when directions can be used, but it is in the best interests of claimants that directions be applied by the organisation that has day-to-day dealings with them.
We note the hon. Gentleman’s comments on the right mix of Jobcentre Plus and private and voluntary sector provision of pathways. That is part of a continuing conversation on the right mix between public sector-led and private and voluntary sector-led employment programmes. We do not have a dogmatic approach and will review the evidence on the most effective ways in which to support people to enable them to return to the labour market. Jobcentre Plus-led pathways have been successful. We anticipate that roll out in the private and voluntary sectors will use available capacity and that could be even more successful.