Schedule 1 - Football banning orders and football-related consequential amendments
Violent Crime Reduction Bill
8:00 pm

Hazel Blears (Minister of State (Policing, Security and Community Safety), Home Office; Salford, Labour)

I beg to move amendment No. 107, in schedule 1, page 42, line 25, leave out sub-paragraph (a) and insert—

‘(a)for subsection (1) substitute—

“(1)An application for a banning order in respect of any person may be made by—

(a)the relevant chief officer, or

(b)the Director of Public Prosecutions,

if it appears to him that the condition in subsection (2) is met.”’.

Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst, Conservative)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government amendments Nos. 108 and 109.

Government new clause 9—Sale and disposal of tickets by unauthorised persons.

Hazel Blears (Minister of State (Policing, Security and Community Safety), Home Office; Salford, Labour)

Amendments Nos. 107 and 109 will make provision for the Director of Public Prosecutions to authorise Crown prosecutors to make an application for a banning order on complaint. Our primary aim is to ensure that Crown prosecutors with specialist knowledge of football disorder legislation and of the judicial process in a host country can present applications in circumstances when the evidence of misbehaviour has been gathered overseas.

At present, the court will not always have at its disposal clarification on overseas judicial and administrative processes that are relevant to an application. Having a specialist prosecutor will help the court make the right order.

Government amendment No. 108 updates the offences covered in schedule 1 of the 1989 Act, explicitly to include section 4A of the Public Order Act 1986. The schedule lists specific and generic criminal offences that can be designated as football-related if a conviction occurs in circumstances connected to football. At present, section 4A offences are covered only if they involve the use or threat of violence. We want to ensure that we can include threatening or abusive words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour as well as violence.

Government new clause 9 amends section 166 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, relating to ticket touting. It ensures that internet sales are covered. We want to redress current inconsistencies and gaps in the ticket touting laws. Our motivation is to deal with public order problems rather than commercial considerations. It is currently an offence to tout in a

“public place or a place to which the public has access”.

That means that ticket touting on the internet is not covered.

Stewart Hosie (Dundee East, Scottish National Party)

I am slightly concerned about the enforceability of the first three subsections of new clause 9. Outside every large all-ticket international match or domestic fixture we see people holding up tickets for sale. Only two weeks ago, before the Dundee United v. Rangers match at Tannadice, there was a queue of people looking to buy or sell tickets that reached my constituency office. The current law on selling tickets in a public place is not being enforced. Is the Minister convinced that the new provision can be enforced?

Hazel Blears (Minister of State (Policing, Security and Community Safety), Home Office; Salford, Labour)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The issue is not only about tackling the commercial aspect of touting but about public order. If people are allowed to buy unauthorised tickets, that can damage our crowd segregation policies, which could result in dreadful clashes. The new clause is designed to plug the gap.

I was also asked about the sale of tickets on the internet. International co-operation on internet offences is becoming increasingly important. We explored similar problems with selling guns on the internet, and of people having access to paedophilia and pornography on the internet. We can prosecute in this country only if the internet host company is British. If the host organisation is an international company, we need international agreements to ensure that we get prosecutions in that way. It is not the easiest thing to do, but because we are encountering these problems more regularly, our relationships with other countries are much better in terms of our enforcement policy. That is why it is important to share intelligence internationally. We are working well at that, particularly with the European Union. There is a range of European bodies such as Europol and   Eurojust. We are sharing the European extradition warrant and working on the European evidence warrant. Clearly there is a range of measures that we can seek to use in that way.

Stewart Hosie (Dundee East, Scottish National Party)

I welcome the internet provisions, but the problem is the practicality of enforcing the law when tickets are sold on the street within view of a police officer in front of the stadium at every major all-ticket match. People buy and sell tickets simply to gain access to football grounds. The law is not being enforced. I have witnessed it on hundreds of occasions. How does the Minister intend to enforce the restrictions on the selling and buying of tickets on the street?

Hazel Blears (Minister of State (Policing, Security and Community Safety), Home Office; Salford, Labour)

I am sorry if I misunderstood the hon. Gentleman. I thought he was asking about internet sales. Clearly, if there is an existing offence, it is the responsibility of the police to enforce the legislation. They will inevitably make a judgment about the implications for public order. If they see people unlawfully selling tickets, that is an existing offence and they should prosecute them and bring them to justice. It is an operational matter in terms of the police activity on the day, but if they feel that it will have a significant impact on public order, they should enforce the law.