Schedule 3
Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Bill [Lords]
6:00 pm
Maria Miller (Shadow Minister (Education), Education; Basingstoke, Conservative)
I wish to speak to amendments Nos. 112, 125 and 127. I may also comment on some of the Government amendments too. It does not often happen, but great minds think alike on this. The Liberals and the Conservatives tabled exactly the same amendment in amendment No. 112. That perhaps shows the strength of feeling on this matter. Certainly it was an issue that was debated at length in the other place. Amendments Nos. 112, 125, 126 and 127 would remove the concept of “frequently” from the Bill. Ultimately, the amendments have been tabled to probe further on who the Bill seeks to monitor. Given the strength of feeling on Opposition Benches and among other interest groups, it would be interesting to hear the Minister’s response.
Before the Bill comes anywhere near the statute book, the situation with regard to who should be CRB checked is less than satisfactory for a number of organisations. I know from speaking to teachers in my constituency that they find it difficult to understand the concept of “regular” in connection with those who need to be CRB checked. The current situation causes concern, which was reiterated in the consultation on the matter.
We all understand the Government’s intention in trying to grapple with the concepts of “frequently” and “occasionally.” It is interesting that the Liberals and the Conservatives have come up with the similar solution—it is worthy of the Government’s further consideration—of removing the concept of activities carried out “frequently” and encouraging consideration of the word “occasionally.” I tabled an amendment that would have enabled us to examine further the use of that word, but unfortunately it was not selected. The matter should be considered with this group of amendments to understand fully our thinking.
The probing amendments would remove the word “frequently”. The amendment that was not selected would have enabled people and employers to define what constituted occasional activity in a particular setting. We felt that that was an interesting concept to play with. The Minister jokingly asked me on Second Reading—or perhaps he was not joking—to define “frequently” for him, which we have found difficult to do. The debate in the other place and the subsequent communication from Lord Adonis showed that a number of enormous loopholes are created by such definitions. I think of my own children, who are in a holiday club lasting for five days. It falls into the category that the hon. Member for Mid-Dorset and North Poole mentioned and, under the Bill, the people running it would not need to be checked at all. That is a concern.
The amendments are intended to challenge the Government on whether we need the word “frequently” in the Bill. Would it not be simpler to remove it so that monitoring relates to the extensive list of settings and positions in the Bill and so that it is left to local employers, whether schools, youth clubs or whatever, to identify exceptions to the broad need for monitoring and decide when they need exemptions for people who occasionally help out?
Within the many settings to which the Bill will apply, the definition of “occasional” could vary. In some organisations, an individual working with children for five days alongside a member of staff would not cause any problems. As a school governor myself, I have seen instances in which outside organisations have come into the school without ever being left in sole charge of the children with whom they come into contact. There will be activities that do not need to be monitored, but equally there will be circumstances, such as those outlined today, that would fall foul of Lord Adonis’s definitions of “frequently” and “occasionally.” Those terms do not help to clarify the situation.
For clarity and for the record, I say that the amendments that we are considering are not the full set of amendments that we tabled. We recognise the need for people to go into monitored settings occasionally, but there should be an opportunity for local employers to decide for themselves whether that should be monitored.
I shall give the Minister another example of the need to be aware of the implications of the Bill. There is a very successful community school in my constituency that has an open access policy for parents. How should its head teacher interpret the Bill? Will parents going on to the campus of the school regularly—on more than five consecutive days or more than once a month—need to be monitored? According to the Bill, it appears that they would need to monitored, although I am not entirely sure that that is the intention, nor is it absolutely necessary.
The intention behind the amendment is to consider the issue from the point of view of those who have to implement the legislation on the ground—in our schools and our playgroups, and in other settings as defined in the Bill—to ensure that they have a clear idea of who should be monitored and that they are empowered to identify those groups that feel should occasionally be allowed within the school. However, we would force governing bodies and other groups to think that through for themselves. If the Minister could give us a positive response on those issues, it would be a most welcome addition to the Bill.