Schedule - Hatred against people on racial or religious grounds
Racial and Religious Hatred Bill
1:15 pm
Dominic Grieve (Shadow Attorney General, (Assist the Home Affairs Team); Beaconsfield, Conservative)
The hon. Gentleman makes some perfectly valid points, certainly in relation to the Attorney-General. That highlights the fact that, unlike I dare say in Victoria, very few cases will end in prosecution. We have all the more reason, therefore, to ensure that citizens—looking at the framework of the law, which will be applied only selectively by the Attorney-General in the prosecutions that he brings—do not decide that they are empowered to arrest other people in circumstances that might cause public disorder, when that is not only unnecessary to prevent the mischief that is taking place but likely to lead to far greater community discord. That is what I am concerned about.
I also disagree with the hon. Gentleman’s point about ridicule—if it can amount to incitement to hatred. It all depends on the form that the ridicule takes. As I said in a previous sitting, ridicule can easily amount to incitement to hatred; indeed, it was a tool used in Nazi Germany for that purpose. I am not confident that ridicule on its own can be excluded. I shall not repeat my arguments; this is a simple issue. I need to be persuaded that it is necessary to have a power of arrest.
On the hon. Gentleman’s final point, I accept that the race relations law has not led to this sort of problem. There are two reasons for that. First, for a long time the race relations law was not arrestable; it became arrestable only recently. Secondly, as I think I acknowledged, it depends on the form of words required to constitute racial hatred. I distinguished previously between racial and religious hatred and I believe that that distinction holds good. Religion is going to be a much more controversial area, therefore it is far more likely that there will be meetings that are controversial and likely to stir up hostility, and at which people will be inclined to test out the way in which law works.
I am grateful to the Minister for saying that he will go back and consider this, but for once I shall try to encourage him a little, and I feel sufficiently strongly about the matter to put it to the vote.