4.5 pm
Health Bill
Caroline Flint (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department of Health; Don Valley, Labour)
Before I enter into discussions about signage—whether signs should say smoking or non-smoking, for example—I want to repeat that I am considering the issue of fines, based on consultation.
I sought advice during the break about who would be liable in respect of the offence of not displaying signs and so on, a matter which was raised by the hon. Member for Northavon (Steve Webb). I was pleased to have had an opportunity to think about that matter and to discuss it with officials. We would not necessarily target ordinary bar staff, but people who have a position of responsibility in a bar; that could be the licensee, the manager or someone who is given additional responsibilities over and above serving in the bar or cleaning it.
I have some sympathy with the suggestion made by the right hon. Member for North-West Hampshire about signs. I asked questions about that issue when we drew up and received responses to the consultation document in the summer and when we discussed the drafting of the Bill. In an ideal world, the presumption would be that everywhere was non-smoking unless there was a sign stating that smoking was allowed. It would be nice to believe that that would happen, as it would be the easiest option. Unfortunately, we do not live in that ideal world.
As part of my deliberations, I discussed what happens in other countries and as far as I am aware—I stand to be corrected—the countries that have introduced restrictions, even those such as Ireland and some states in America that have a total ban, still make provision for the focus to be on non-smoking, rather than smoking, signs. That is partly because of the defence issue—people should know that they are entering a non-smoking environment. We are at the start of a legislative process in defining, in law, those places that should be non-smoking. In the debate on this clause we are discussing the defences available to people to argue that they were unaware that they were in a non-smoking or smoke-free establishment.