Clause 9
Fraud Bill [Lords]
4:30 pm
David Heath (Shadow Leader of the House of Commons & Shadow Cabinet Office Minister, Cabinet Office; Somerton and Frome, Liberal Democrat)
I beg to move amendment No. 14, in clause 9, page 4, line 1, leave out paragraph (b) and insert—
‘(b) for any fraudulent purpose.'.
The amendment is probing the precise terms of the clause. It suggests replacing subsection (2)(b) with a briefer paragraph (b).
The clause is important, and I do not want in any way to reduce its effectiveness in dealing with fraudulent business carried out by a sole trader. However, I do not understand the requirement to show
“intent to defraud creditors of any person or for any other fraudulent purpose.”
The clause does not refer to creditors of the business but to creditors of any person, which I suggest is the universality of people. Most people will be creditors, at least temporarily, of at least one other person and will be debtors to at least one other person. Therefore, I do not understand what is meant.
“Fraudulent purpose” includes creditors of the company, and indeed creditors of any other person or any other trader. Therefore, it is a simplification and a clarification to use the simple phrase “for any fraudulent purpose” rather than the obscure phrase that is in the Bill. Perhaps the Solicitor-General will be able to tell me that I am quite wrong and that there is a specific meaning that necessarily attaches to the phrase and must be in the Bill. I look forward to his response.