Cheryl Gillan (Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Wales; Chesham & Amersham, Conservative)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

The swansong of new clauses is a very simple one tabled to reassure several people who have made representations to me about their concern that there might be a duplication and overlap of functions, particularly with the Care Standards Inspectorate for Wales. I tabled the new clause so that the Minister could have the opportunity in Committee to set people’s minds at rest, because he too will know about those concerns. I hope that the new clause is a suitable vehicle to enable us to hear from him how the new commissioner will avoid conflict with the CSIW.

Nick Ainger (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Office of the Secretary of State for Wales; Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Labour)

I am grateful for the opportunity to set the record straight on the concern that some individuals and organisations have had about the possible duplication of roles between the commissioner and the CSIW. However, can tell the hon. Lady that the new clause is not necessary. The remits of the  commissioner and the CSIW are quite different and there is no likelihood of the two offices tripping over each in seeking to safeguard older people.

The CSIW’s main focus is on registration and inspection of the care sector in Wales. It enforces the Care Standards Act along with its associated regulations and national minimum standards in Wales. It deals with complaints that arise from the operation of those arrangements.

Broadly speaking, the commissioners remit in that area is to check that the CSIW is doing its job properly in relation to older people. He will not have statutory powers to inspect or bring civil or criminal proceeding against service providers. The commissioner’s role is more strategic. For example, the Assembly’s intention, as with the Children’s Commissioner, is that the commissioner should use his powers to focus on cases that raise a question of principle, or that have more general application or relevance to the rights or welfare of older people.

That proposed approach was set out in paragraph 33 of the statement of policy intention. Crucially, the commissioner will be required to take into account whether the issues involved in the case have been, or are being, formally considered by other persons, and if they have not, or are not, whether they are more suitable for consideration by others.

Finally, where the case is the subject of legal proceedings, clause 21 will apply to restrict the commissioner’s powers in relation to proceedings. I know that this is a probing new clause, and I hope that I have set out the different roles.

Madeleine Moon (Bridgend, Labour)

Does the Minister agree that the chances of the commissioner having a conflict of interest with the CSIW would be the equivalent of the Children’s Commissioner having a conflict of interest with the CSIW given that it has a major role to play in the regulation of children’s services? That conflict has not arisen, so it seems highly unlikely that it would arise in the case before us.

Nick Ainger (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Office of the Secretary of State for Wales; Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Labour)

Absolutely. My hon. Friend again makes an excellent point, based on her experience. As far as I am aware, there has not been any conflict between the Children’s Commissioner and the CSIW and I would not expect it to happen with the commissioner for older people. With those words I ask the hon. Lady to withdraw the motion.

Cheryl Gillan (Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Wales; Chesham & Amersham, Conservative)

I am most grateful to the Minister. As he knows, I was reflecting representations that had been made by, for example, the city county of Swansea, where there was fear that there could be a duplication of functions. I am glad that I have been able to do them the service of not pre-judging the issue myself and uttering words of wisdom from the Opposition Benches, and allowed him to put his comments on the record. I am therefore grateful, and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Nick Ainger (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Office of the Secretary of State for Wales; Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Labour)

On a point of order, Mr. Williams. Before you conclude our proceedings, I should like to  thank you for your stewardship of our proceedings, and to ask that you pass on our thanks to Mrs. Dean as well. The day has been an interesting one and we have had contributions from all sides of the Committee. As is our normal custom, I also thank all the officials, Doorkeepers, police and other people who have served us so well in the past few hours. I should like to say to the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham and to other Committee members that I think it has been useful to tease out some issues on this important legislation for Wales. Although we have not agreed on everything, we have done ourselves and the people of Wales a great service in properly scrutinising the Bill.

Cheryl Gillan (Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Wales; Chesham & Amersham, Conservative)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Williams, I associate myself entirely with the Minister’s remarks. I thank everybody who has been involved in the Committee Room in the process of scrutiny of the Bill. Sadly, following the passage of the Government of Wales Bill, this Bill will be one of the last of its nature to be scrutinised in such depth in this place. Nevertheless, I wish this piece of legislation well. When it started in the other place—more than a year ago now, in effect—there  was little opposition from my side of the House, but there was a genuine desire to examine it in detail, and I think we have had ample opportunity to do that. It is rare that we manage to finish scrutinising a piece of legislation in good order and in good time, because the Government are usually quite curmudgeonly about time. The Minister’s generosity in allowing us sufficient time on this occasion and in enabling us not to have to consider the Bill on another day could not have anything to do with an election in Blaenau Gwent, could it? No, that would make me far too cynical.

I thank my hon. Friends on this side of the Committee for supporting me and I thank the hon. Members who spoke for the Liberal Democrats and for Plaid Cymru. It has been a pleasure working with both of them.

Hywel Williams (Spokesperson (Culture; Education & Skills; Work & Pensions; Social Security; Health; Disability; International Development); Caernarfon, Plaid Cymru)

I thank hon. Members for an interesting first experience in Standing Committee.