Cheryl Gillan (Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Wales; Chesham & Amersham, Conservative)

Clause 5 sets out what the commission may do in determining whether arrangements for advocacy, complaints and whistleblowing are effective in safeguarding and promoting the interests of relevant older people in Wales. Subsection (3) provides that

“The Commissioner may also assess the effect on relevant older people in Wales of a person’s failure to make any such arrangements.”

I want to probe the Minister’s thinking about whether a timeline is envisaged for the commissioner in assessing the effect of a person’s failure to make such arrangements. If there are severe failures in advocacy, complaints or whistleblowing arrangements, the timeliness of an investigation, report and assessment is critical. I wonder whether the Minister has anything in his great book of words that would enlighten us on that, or if it is something that he would prefer to come back to me on.

Nick Ainger (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Office of the Secretary of State for Wales; Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Labour)

The hon. Lady makes a good point about whistleblowing and complaints procedures. Those people who have made a formal complaint and concluded a complaints procedure but remain dissatisfied may well go to the commissioner. However, I accept that there may be occasions when they are going through a complaints or a whistleblowing process and realise that something is wrong with the process—for example, because it discriminates against an older person. I appreciate that the commissioner would want to respond quickly on that to the relevant authority. I will seek further advice on that and write to the hon. Lady.

Cheryl Gillan (Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Wales; Chesham & Amersham, Conservative)

I am grateful to the Minister. I was looking at clause 5(7)(c), which refers to where

“the health or safety of a person has been endangered;”

I know that the Minister is familiar with the provision. I hope that he can come back to me on that because the timeliness of a response and of what is carried out is relevant in that case.

Nick Ainger (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Office of the Secretary of State for Wales; Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Labour)

If that was brought to the attention of the commissioner under clause 7(a), (b), (c), (d), and possibly even (e), he would immediately alert the relevant authority. If people are at risk, he would not sit back and carry out research. If it is brought to his attention that any individual is at risk, he would immediately alert the relevant authorities, whether it be the police or the local social services department. In those circumstances, he would react quickly. However, when we are talking about whistleblowing and the complaints procedure, there may not be that urgency.

Cheryl Gillan (Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Wales; Chesham & Amersham, Conservative)

I appreciate that, but there may be an urgency in a whistleblowing procedure. As far as I can see, there is no statutory obligation for the commissioner to react in a timely manner. I would like that to be considered. It is not something that immediately springs out of the Bill. It should not be left to good judgment because, sadly, we know that sometimes judgment is not always good. I shall be interested to hear what the Minister has to say after he has consulted on the time limits.

Nick Ainger (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Office of the Secretary of State for Wales; Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Labour)

All I can say—