Mark Williams (Shadow Minister, Education & Skills; Ceredigion, Liberal Democrat)

I beg to move amendment No. 23, in clause 4, page 2, line 34, leave out from ‘field' to end of line 35 and insert

‘which is directly related to Wales.'.

Janet Dean (Burton, Labour)

With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 24, in clause 4, page 3, line 13, leave out from ‘field' to end of line and insert

‘which is directly related to Wales.'.

Mark Williams (Shadow Minister, Education & Skills; Ceredigion, Liberal Democrat)

We discussed the issues at length earlier and I do not want to detain the Committee longer than necessary. We are revisiting the subject of non-devolved matters and the commissioner’s capacity to consider those. Under the clause, the Assembly could amend schedule 2 by adding to the relevant list. I want to reiterate what I said about the reality on the ground. Research by my colleagues who spoke on the matter in another place revealed that 80 per cent. of complaints received by Citizens Advice, to cite one of the relevant organisations, related to pensions and benefits. I fully anticipate what the Minister will say, but there is one other issue that I want to touch on.

I am interested in what the Minister said about the roles involved, and he has made things very clear. However, how does he envisage the work of the commissioner being promoted to the general public, given the limitations of the commissioner’s role as we see it? How will those limitations be conveyed  practically to the public, to avoid disappointment for a good many constituents wanting redress on various matters? That is a huge publicity task for the Minister and the commissioner.

Nick Ainger (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Office of the Secretary of State for Wales; Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Labour)

The hon. Gentleman is quite right: I shall disappoint him, but at least I am consistent. On his final point, which did not relate to the amendment, I do not accept that the commissioner is subject to the limitations that he implies. As I explained in response to several amendments and clause stand part debates, the commissioner will be able to take up issues on behalf of people in Wales, undertake research and make representations. I recognise that Opposition Members are not satisfied with the process, but he will still be able to carry out that task effectively. I am certain that the commissioner will be able to do just what has been done by, for example, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales, in establishing a prominent role in Welsh public life. The hon. Gentleman referred to Citizens Advice, and I am sure that if people go to citizens advice bureaux with relevant matters those will be passed on to the commissioner for investigation, further research or whatever is appropriate.

Amendment No. 23 provides that the Assembly may add to schedule 2, by order, any body that has functions in a field that is directly related to Wales. That could include, potentially, a number of UK-wide bodies operating in non-devolved fields. We have debated that question and we cannot accept the amendment. Where the Assembly adds a person to schedule 2, the Bill requires the Assembly to specify which of the person’s functions will be “relevant functions” and thus subject to the commissioner’s remit. Currently, a function can be specified as a “relevant function” only if it is in a field in which the Assembly has functions—that is, if it is devolved. The same applies to amendment No. 24. I therefore ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the amendment.

Mark Williams (Shadow Minister, Education & Skills; Ceredigion, Liberal Democrat)

I thank the Minister for his response to the amendment and to my slightly devious attempt to raise another issue on the back of it. There is a fault line between some of the Opposition and the Minister, and there is little that we can do breach that divide. However, the subject has been fully aired, both in the other place and here. It is important that it was. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.