Roger Williams (Brecon & Radnorshire, Liberal Democrat)

I beg to move amendment No. 294, in page 11, line 20, at end insert—

‘(iv)the particular needs of childcare in rural areas.’.

Part 2 relates to Wales. I have tabled the amendment even though I do not have a great deal of faith in the form of legislation used because it puts too much emphasis on the detail of what the Welsh Assembly should encourage Welsh authorities to do. I am sure that the provision of child care in rural areas in England has its own difficulties, and it certainly has in Wales. The amendment has been tabled to remind the Welsh Assembly that rural issues are important. The Welsh Assembly Government are south-east Wales-centric, believing that everything revolves around   Cardiff, in the way that the Westminster Government are south-east England-centric, believing that everything revolves the south-east of England.

The amendment would prompt and encourage the Welsh Assembly Government to ensure that child care provision in rural areas is taken into account. I went around on Saturday with the Rev. Ian Charlesworth, who is responsible for Sure Start provision in the Brecon area. He explained that a big difficulty is ensuring that children from very rural areas get there to benefit from the experience. I understand also that registered child minders cannot provide that facility in houses other than their own. There are more suitable ways of going about that in rural areas. I do not understand the reason for the requirement and it seems to me that if child minders could use a domestic residence other than their own, or other premises, that might be more suitable and enable more children to participate.

My main purpose is to encourage the Welsh Assembly Government to ensure that the children of rural Wales enjoy the same facilities as the children of urban Wales.

Beverley Hughes (Minister of State (Children, Young People and Families), Department for Education and Skills; Stretford & Urmston, Labour)

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about families in rural areas, whether in Wales or England. He is right to say that it will be for the Assembly to tackle the problem. It may be some comfort to him to know that the Welsh Assembly Government have considered it and recognised its importance in their child care strategy, “Childcare is for Children”, which explicitly acknowledges the need to contend with the fact that child care is likely to be less accessible for parents in rural areas.

I understand also that child care will be specifically considered within the new Wales transport strategy and in the guidance to the regional transport consortium for the development of a new round of local transport plans. It will be necessary to take account of child care matters in thinking about the development of transport. The duty is drawn broadly, which gives the Welsh Assembly the wherewithal to take the needs of rural areas into account. However, the detail must be left to the Assembly.

Roger Williams (Brecon & Radnorshire, Liberal Democrat)

With that assurance, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Roger Williams (Brecon & Radnorshire, Liberal Democrat)

I am greatly concerned about the Bill’s provisions in relation to the National Assembly for Wales. I am reminded of the story about someone going to a reference library to look up Wales and finding the entry, “For Wales, see England.” The Bill seems to read across from England to Wales. It gives no relevance to the fact that there has been a devolved settlement and that the Government of Wales Act 1998 is in full force.

I tabled—too late—an amendment to improve the clause by providing that the Welsh Assembly Government may, by regulation, require Welsh local   authorities to secure the relevant sufficiency of provision, so far as is reasonable. Why should the Westminster Government dictate to the Assembly Government how they look after child care? Wales has moved far beyond England in child care provision. Every child over the age of three in Wales now gets 10 hours of free child care every week, provided that it is in an early years environment. There are forces families in my constituency, and those people are stationed at different times in England and Wales. When they come to Wales they see that the provision is much superior, and are pleased to take up the facilities.

The Bill is hugely prescriptive about what the National Assembly should do. The approach could be minimalist, but it seems almost impressionist, with huge swirls of colour across the Bill. It would be better if the provisions were simple and allowed the National Assembly for Wales to have powers in a simple form that enabled it to do what it wanted.

Beverley Hughes (Minister of State (Children, Young People and Families), Department for Education and Skills; Stretford & Urmston, Labour)

Before we launch into any more of the clauses in part 2, perhaps I could disabuse the hon. Gentleman of his assumption that they are a Westminster imposition on the Welsh Assembly Government. They are not an imposition: they contain measures that the Welsh Assembly Government wanted and are written in the way that they wanted. This is a completely devolved matter, and the phrasing of the clauses was a matter for the Welsh Assembly, just as the task of drafting regulation and guidance, which will fall to the Assembly as a result of the powers that it secures under the Bill, will be a matter for the Assembly. If the hon. Gentleman has complaints about the drafting, he should take them to the Welsh Assembly and have his debate there.

To give just one example, clause 22 replicates clause 6, but there is an extra provision to ensure that sufficient child care provision makes use of the Welsh language. The Welsh Assembly clearly wanted that addition and it is entirely happy with the wording of all the clauses.

Roger Williams (Brecon & Radnorshire, Liberal Democrat)

Is the Minister confusing the Welsh Assembly Government with the Welsh Assembly? They are two entirely different things. As far as I know, the Welsh Assembly did not see the Bill until it appeared in the House, although the Welsh Assembly Government might have seen it. There is a fine but substantial distinction between those two terms. At some stage—it will not be as a result of the Government of Wales Bill, which was published last Thursday—the Welsh Assembly will have its own powers to make primary legislation. When it does, such confusions and misconceptions about the Welsh Assembly Government and the Welsh Assembly will not occur.