Clause 36
Charities Bill [Lords]
4:30 pm
Edward Miliband (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Cabinet Office; Doncaster North, Labour)
The hon. Gentleman was admirably brief; I shall be slightly less brief in trying to answer his questions, but I will be as brief as I can. On amendment No. 30, to clause 36, I understand that there are two aspects to his concern. First, he is worried that there would not be an agreement in place when the payment was made and therefore the agreement would be made retrospectively. Secondly, he is worried that there would not be an agreement in place when the service was provided and the agreement would be made retrospectively—after the service was provided. I think that those are his two concerns.
Let me deal first with the hon. Gentleman’s first concern, which relates to the principle that the agreement needs to be in place before the payment is made. I can certainly reassure him on that point, because clause 36(2) states:
“If conditions A to D are met in relation to remuneration within subsection (1), the person providing the services...is entitled to receive the remuneration out of the funds of the charity.”
Condition A is that there is an agreement set out in writing, so I hope that that avoids the problem that he is getting at, which involves a payment being made and an agreement being agreed post hoc—after the event.
The second worry—which the hon. Gentleman may not have had—is also covered, because the clause refers to an agreement under which the relevant person
“is to provide the services in question”,
which suggests that the agreement has to be made before the services are provided. I hope that that satisfies the hon. Gentleman on that point.
On amendment No. 31, I think that we have the same end in view, but I advise the hon. Gentleman that taking out the words
“or under a contract of employment”
would get charities into precisely the pickle that we do not want to get them into, which is that, under the clause, services can be provided that are contractual services. The words
“or under a contract of employment”
are in this clause, covering the remuneration of trustees providing services, precisely so that it will not be about contracts of employment. I hope that that explanation satisfies the hon. Gentleman.
I assure the hon. Gentleman that his interesting point about cohabiting couples or people is not immediately obvious in the Bill. However, I hope that he will be satisfied on reading new section 73B(6) of the 1993 Act in tandem with paragraph 171(5) of schedule 8 of the Bill, which would add paragraph 2(3) to schedule 5 of the 1993 Act:
“Where two persons of the same sex are not civil partners but live together as if they were, each of them shall be treated for those purposes as the civil partner of the other.”