Clause 15
Charities Bill [Lords]
12:00 pm
Andrew Turner (Shadow Minister (Charities), Home Affairs; Isle of Wight, Conservative)
The relevant words in the hon. Gentleman’s recent speech were “I have been a fundraiser, and I know what it’s like.” He is trying to make it easy for fundraisers and not for donors. Donors are usually quite interested in the purpose to which their generosity will be applied. I am not an enthusiast of amendment No. 101, and I understand the purposes behind the hon. Lady’s amendments.
Amendments Nos. 23 and 24 are designed to give guidance on how to make the declaration. It is all very well saying that a declaration must or must not be made, but it is helpful to have a cast-iron declaration to hand if a donor wants to sign it. That would not be a bad thing for charities to bring forward.
Amendment No. 25 relates to the Lanesborough hotel case. If a donor makes a donation and the charity fails, is the donor entitled to the value of the original donation or to the value of the asset at the time of the charity’s failure? The Lanesborough hotel—the case involves a leasehold reversion not a charity—used to be a hospital, and before that it was a property owned by the Duke of Westminster. He gave the property for use as a hospital and it served as such for a while, but then it ceased to be a hospital and the Duke of Westminster had it back.
Let us be clear: if we do not have such a provision, we put donors off. I might be willing to give something in the hope that it would be used to set up a monastery, but 200 years later along comes Henry VIII who says to me, “We’re not having any monasteries, but you can have the value of this handkerchief.” Actually, Henry VIII was not as honest as that because he would not have given anyone the value of a handkerchief, but the principle is clear. When the asset is a real asset, it is sensible to provide for the donor to be able to reclaim the asset or its current value, rather than merely the value of the asset at the time it was donated. Will the Parliamentary Secretary say who will decide the value of the asset? What was the value of Rievaulx abbey at the time that it was dissolved by Henry VIII? What was its value at the time that it was donated—if it was donated?
Martin Horwoodrose—