Clause 90 - Civil recovery: freezing orders
Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill
3:45 pm
Mr Dominic Grieve (Shadow Attorney General, Home Affairs; Beaconsfield, Conservative)
I suppose that, having welcomed clause 89, I should be even more welcoming of clause 90 in its generality. When the 2002 Act first went through Committee, the possibility of having freezing orders, rather than appointing receivers, had not been entirely thought through, although it was touched on, and I remember some interesting discussions outside the formal setting of the Committee. The fact that we shall now have freezing orders strikes me as a very good thing.
The other thing that the Government are doing in the Bill, as they indicated on Second Reading, is taking the view that someone should be able to pay their legal expenses out of frozen assets if that is thought reasonable. There is a big history to this issue and it rang such a bell in my mind that I went off to dig out the Official Report of the Committee that considered the Proceeds of Crime Bill. I found that I had said the following:
''Will you end up with a legal aid bill of £5 million for convicting Mr. Big, without any regard to the fact that the money that was restrained and recovered would have covered that amount? That is bad PR for the legal system. Will the Minister explain how the system is designed to work?''—[Official Report, Standing Committee B, 29 November 2001; c. 375.]
I might add that the Minister then explained that that was exactly what was intended and that legal aid would be made available. So, the Government's change of heart is, I suppose, even more welcome, because it follows my original suggestion exactly.
My query, which relates to amendment No. 217, is that I assume that legal expenses are regarded as part of reasonable living expenses. If it is the Government's intention that they are not to be seen in that way, however, should we not spell that out? On Second Reading, the then Home Secretary made it clear that that was his intention. If I have misunderstood the position, I would be grateful if somebody could clarify it for me.
Amendment No. 235 relates to clause 90 and page 56, and they highlight something that is slightly odd. The Scottish provisions include an express provision excluding a person from taking money to meet legal expenses, which muddied the waters for me even further. I therefore tabled the two probing amendments to try to understand exactly what the Government intend.