New Clause 13 - Conversion of Existing Permits
Gambling Bill
5:00 pm

Mr Malcolm Moss (Shadow Minister, Home Affairs; North East Cambridgeshire, Conservative)

I beg to move that the clause be read a second time. Perhaps 13 will be lucky on this occasion. I have it in my power to bring these proceedings to a swift and easy conclusion. The new clause is clear cut. It is an attempt to secure grandfather rights so that on the appointed day when this Bill is enacted those with a premises licence granted under the 2003 Licensing Act will automatically have rights for all their existing machines.

Mr Richard Caborn (Minister of State (Sport and Tourism), Department for Culture, Media & Sport; Sheffield Central, Labour)

It has always been a clear public commitment that pubs that have already been allowed to install category C gaming machines should be allowed to keep them when this Bill comes into effect. If the pub has been allowed to have more than two machines those additional machines should be allowed to stay. This entitlement cannot be wholly unconditional. If a pub is caught allowing children to play category C machines, permission to operate any machine may be revoked. Subject to that we accept that pubs should not need to make a fresh justification for their machine entitlement.

I should at this point acknowledge that clause 263 is also relevant to the issue of grandfather rights. We have already been in discussion with the British Beer and Pub Association about the clause, which refers to licensed premises that are used primarily for the supply of alcohol for consumption on the premises. We have noted the concern that has been expressed that the word ''primarily'' may cause difficulty for off-licences that are allowed to have gaming machines. Hotel bars and ten-pin bowling premises may also be affected. We have undertaken to take steps to address those concerns and if necessary to bring forward amendments to the Bill.

The issue raised by the amendment is narrower than the one about pubs and other licensed premises having grandfather rights written into the Bill. That would be covered by schedule 15 in the same way as all other gambling authorisations. We believe that schedule 15 is sufficient as it stands. It provides that a commencement order may provide not just for licences, but for any other kind of permission given under legislation that the Bill supersedes to continue to apply with any modifications needed.

Mr Malcolm Moss (Shadow Minister, Home Affairs; North East Cambridgeshire, Conservative)

I remember the debate on clause 263 and I am grateful to the Minister for taking that matter away and looking to table amendments—perhaps on Report—that will satisfy the concerns of the beer and pub industry. I am also grateful for his assurance that schedule 15 includes the requirements to achieve what the British Beer and Pub Association sought to achieve; a guarantee that on the appointed day there will be grandfather rights for the machines that currently exist. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn.