Mr Richard Caborn (Minister of State (Sport and Tourism), Department for Culture, Media & Sport; Sheffield Central, Labour)

I beg to move amendment No. 295, in clause 121, page 56, line 13, after '5', insert—

'(other than section 61(2), (4) and (5))'.

This is purely a drafting amendment to clarify the effect of part 5 on part 6.

Amendment agreed to.

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet, Conservative)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 7—Application of provisions of Part 5 (No. 2)—

'The Secretary of State shall, after consultation with those parties listed in section 22(5), make regulations regarding those matters referred to in Part 5 of this Act as such shall apply to personal licences under Part 6.'.

Mr Malcolm Moss (Shadow Minister, Home Affairs; North East Cambridgeshire, Conservative)

We recognise the Government's attempt with amendment No. 295 to clarify what the clause stands for. We would go further. New clause 7 attempts to give greater clarity to what the Government intend. Either clause 121 should set out in detail the way in which personal licences are to be regulated, as has been done for operating licences under part 5, or the Secretary of State should issue a statement on the regulation of personal licences, following consultation.

A variation of a personal licence could result in imprisonment for an operator who is in breach of his operating licence due to a change in the personal licence under clause 30(1), and the defence of holding a valid operating licence will not be available. It is therefore critical that the provisions regarding personal licences are fully set out in the Bill, in order to comply with the Human Rights Act 1998 and the European convention on human rights.

An individual can also be liable to imprisonment for a breach of his personal licence under clause 132(4). That emphasises the need to ensure clarity in the Bill. Clause 121 attempts to sidestep important issues of detail by simply providing that the provisions regarding operating licences will be repeated unless otherwise amended by the Secretary of State. We believe that such an approach will lead to uncertainty as it will be impossible for those operating under the provisions to understand which will be modified and which will apply to personal licences. We believe that new clause 7 gives that clarity.

Mr Richard Caborn (Minister of State (Sport and Tourism), Department for Culture, Media & Sport; Sheffield Central, Labour)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for moving the new clause—

Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet, Conservative)

Order. The new clause has not been moved. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to move it later, he will no doubt indicate that.

Mr Richard Caborn (Minister of State (Sport and Tourism), Department for Culture, Media & Sport; Sheffield Central, Labour)

I therefore thank the hon. Gentleman for bringing the new clause to the Committee. I think that he is trying to be helpful, but I am doubtful about how much the new clause would improve the   provisions of clause 121, which allow us to prescribe in regulation how part 5 should apply to part 6. That is, I think, what the hon. Gentleman wants. I admit that the clause does not impose a duty to consult, but I am not sure what such a duty would add.

It is our stated intention that procedures in part 5 should generally apply to part 6 as well. In part 6, we set out the primary differences. We have taken the regulation-making power to deal with matters that might need modification, to make them sensibly apply to a personal licensing regime. The alternative to that approach is to repeat in part 6 everything that we set out in part 5. I do not think that anyone in Committee would think that that was sensible; it would clearly mean needless repetition. Clause 121 provides a sensible way to recognise the contents of part 6 and the need to make further changes by regulation. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will consider those points and not press the new clause.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 121, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.