Mr Alun Michael (Minister of State (Rural Affairs), Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Cardiff South & Penarth, Labour/Co-operative)

The point is that the local authority has two alternatives: either it gets the money from the offender or it prosecutes; it is not a question of not pursuing the fixed penalty. It would be perfectly open to the authority to say, ''Ok, if you do a bit of work, we won't prosecute.'' The form of words used would be slightly different, but the end result might be the same. The point, however, is that there would be an opportunity to do something a little different. It would need quite a bit of thinking through in terms of the messages that were being given, but it would not be impossible for a local authority that really wanted to do so to put something constructive in place in its area to encourage engagement in clearing up, instead of taking people to court.

I am trying to respond positively and constructively to what is behind the amendment. There is, however, no possibility of accepting it, because it would muddle the fixed penalty notice with sentences of the court and the hierarchy of ways of dealing with offenders through the formal court and criminal justice system. However, there might be something in the proposal that a local authority could pick up as a way of designing local provisions, which might have the benefits outlined by the hon. Member for Guildford, as well as benefits in terms of engagement and education about the impact of litter on an area.

I hope that the hon. Lady will withdraw her amendment, because even though I cannot accept the amendment, we do not disagree about wanting to achieve greater engagement and flexibility in dealing with offences. I hope that the hon. Lady accepts that I am trying to meet her halfway and to be constructive about her suggestions.

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