Clause 2 - Gating orders
Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Bill
2:30 pm
Mr Alun Michael (Minister of State (Rural Affairs), Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour/Co-operative)
I made the point this morning that the Bill does what it can, but that it cannot solve all the problems of the universe, land ownership and a variety of other things, and that it is not a magic wand or a panacea. We want access to be limited when it causes problems of disorder and difficulty for local people, but not when such limits are not needed. Of course, that needs to be applied in the context of good co-operation, with the exchange of information between a variety of organisations, including the police and local authorities. Our discussions have made it clear that the instrument deals with some significant problems, but that how it is used and how local intelligence is developed are important.
Amendments Nos. 2 and 31 are both significant, as they probe the need for alley-gating. It is a lot simpler in practice than in theory. I can say that with a little authority, having dealt with some 20 applications under the requirements of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, which requires local authorities to make proposals to designate an area and to provide evidence that they need to do so.
When such evidence has been given, it has been fairly clear that people have gone to the trouble of talking to local residents, the police and crime reduction units, and have co-operated with the local authority, because a consensus view, based on experience, has been clearly enunciated in the proposal. I believe that the same will happen under the present requirements. The points made in debate about the need for consultation, for emergency services and others to be able to gain access whenever needed, and, generally, for community support were all well made.
Most points raised by the amendments could be dealt with more appropriately in regulations. Indeed, on one or two matters, when hon. Members referred to particular arrangements, they made exactly that point and were looking for an assurance that regulations would deal with such issues. Some of those are already covered in the legislation.
I underline the fact that alleys that are closed under the Bill's provisions remain a highway. As a result, a variety of provisions relating to a variety of organisations—I shall return to the point in a moment—will still apply as if the alley-gating had not taken place. There will be no need to recreate arrangements that are already firmly in place in the law, but I accept that that needs to be made absolutely clear to authorities when they are taking decisions on alley-gating and to the public, who should not be worried if they are given the appropriate reassurance.
The hon. Member for Vale of York (Miss McIntosh) asked about the possibility of vehicles being on an area that has been alley-gated. I confess that I am not totally sure of the circumstances she has in mind, but I would be happy if, outside the Committee, she gave specific examples of what concerns her. We could work them through as illustrations and I could respond in writing.
The essential point is that a gated alley remains a public highway. Local authorities will have a duty to remove obstructions, and any vehicles on it must be legal, just as they must be on the highway. Concerns of the sort raised by the hon. Lady are already dealt with adequately in legislation, but we are happy to respond to questions on best practice and making things clear. I reassure the Committee that the basic point is absolutely clear.