New Clause 3 - Power to send for persons
Public Audit (Wales) Bill [Lords]
4:00 pm
Mr Don Touhig (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Wales), Department for Constitutional Affairs; Islwyn, Labour/Co-operative)
The intention of new clause 3 appears to be to give the Assembly's Audit Committee the power to require a wider class of persons to attend to give evidence and produce documents. That power would be limited only by the requirement that the person's attendance be relevant to the Auditor General's report that the Audit Committee is considering.
Under the present section 95 of the Government of Wales Act 1998, which deals with the Auditor General's existing right of access to documents and information, the Auditor General is entitled to all documents relating to the accounts of any relevant person. For example, if the Auditor General is conducting an audit of a body mentioned in schedule 5 to the Government of Wales Act, the documents
relating to that body's accounts may or may not be in the hands of a person who is a member of or a member of staff of that body.
Section 74 of the Government of Wales Act permits the summoning only of persons who are members of or members of staff of bodies or offices mentioned in schedules 4 and 5 of that Act. Consequently, there is already a difference between the categories of persons who may be holding or controlling a relevant document and the categories of persons who may be summoned to appear before the Audit Committee. That is because the Audit Committee is principally concerned with having before it the relevant members or members of staff of the body about which the Auditor General for Wales has prepared his report, so that those persons can be questioned on the report.
I echo what the hon. Member for Caernarfon said about the fact that the work of the Audit Committee in the Assembly has been first class. We recognise that, and there are lessons to be learned for government throughout the United Kingdom from the openness and transparency with which things have been done in Cardiff. We could all reflect on the benefits of that in a wider context.
Extending the Audit Committee's power as the new clause proposes may result in an increased regulatory burden. Having already been subject to the wider powers of access of the Auditor General, a person may become subject to attendance before the Audit Committee. The attendance of witnesses is covered by National Assembly Standing Orders, and I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that that is the most appropriate way of dealing with the issue. My understanding is that there have been no problems in practice.
I do not want to seem as if I am dismissing the valid points raised by the hon. Gentleman, but before considering the new clause, it would have to be demonstrated to me that there is a problem in the existing operation. I am not satisfied that such a problem exists, so I invite him to withdraw the new clause.