Clause 14 - Appointment of auditors
Public Audit (Wales) Bill [Lords]
10:45 am
Mr Bill Wiggin (Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Local and Devolved Government Affairs; Leominster, Conservative)
Indeed. I think that I was very kind to the Minister, as were you, Mr. Griffiths.
Amendment No. 23 would delete subsection (3) of clause 14 and enable the Auditor General to audit local authorities, as he does with public bodies under part 1. He should not be prohibited from doing so, as proposed in subsection (3). That is why we seek to delete that subsection.
Why is there special treatment for local authorities, which are also substantially funded by central Government through the Assembly? Why have not all public sector bodies been placed on the same footing in the Bill with respect to the appointment of auditors? If that has happened in NHS auditing, which creates a new model for Wales, why not for local authorities? That is another reason why the Minister cannot use the principle of consistency with England, as the Bill creates an inconsistency in relation to NHS audits. If he claims that there would be a conflict of interest in auditing local authority bodies, surely there is a conflict of interest in the Auditor General auditing NHS bodies too.
On Second Reading, the Minister argued that local authorities are different because they are democratically elected. Can he explain why that is a legitimate argument for ruling out the Auditor General for Wales being able to appoint himself? If the situation requires an even hand, who better to apply that than the Auditor General?
Amendment No. 24, which is probing, would delete subsection (6), under which the Auditor General is required to consult the local authority before appointing an external auditor. The amendment's
purpose is to discover why the Auditor General has to consult the local authority in the first place and what would happen if it were to refuse his recommendation.
Amendment No. 25 would delete the power in subsection (5) of joint audit appointments. There are potential problems with joint audits, such as duplication and cost. There is also the risk of omission when things escape audit. Joint audits are not the norm in the private sector for those reasons. Again, provisions have been lifted from the Audit Commission Act 1998, but I believe that they are unnecessary.