Clause 41 - Transfer of certain functions to National Assembly for Wales
Higher Education Bill
5:00 pm
Mr Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell, Conservative)
That is indeed unlikely, and my hon. Friend makes an important point. The Welsh Assembly Government have made a virtue of publicly stating their determination to keep to their manifesto commitments slightly more clearly than others whom we have encountered during our proceedings.
When deciding whether it is appropriate to devolve a power to the Welsh Assembly, the Committee and the House should ask the fundamental question: what practical benefit will the people of Wales derive from such power? Will it genuinely improve their material situation, or is it simply being done for ideological reasons? Will the Under-Secretary set those questions at the heart of his remarks? In previous debates he has not dealt adequately with the practical benefits of change; I hope that he will do so today.
We are dealing with a set of changes that might create minefields in several areas. The most fundamental point is that we are not dealing with two separate systems of higher education. Suggestions have been made that that is what the Assembly Government aspire to, but the practical reality is that we are a single country that witnesses great flows of students. We just have to look at the mix of study patterns for Welsh students to realise that it is not a matter of saying, ''Well, this happens in Wales and that happens in England, so we will draw a line between the two and we will have two separate systems.'' In Wales, in 2001–02—the last year for which figures are available—there were 59,685 full-time students: 43 per cent. were English-domiciled, and 55 per cent. Welsh-domiciled. There were 43,055 part-time students attending higher education institutions in Wales: 81 per cent. were Welsh, as one would expect, given the nature of part-time study, but even in that sector, 18 per cent. of the students were English.
Let us consider individual institutions. I have referred before to the university of Wales, in Aberystwyth, where 68 to 70 per cent. of undergraduates are from England. The figure varies across Wales and is much higher at the university of Glamorgan, where 77.9 per cent. of students are from Wales and 12.6 per cent. from England.
That demonstrates that the situation is very fluid and that students exercise choice. Students from Wales do not see themselves as Welsh students for the purposes of higher education. Like any other students, they rightly look at all the available options and decide where to go without regard to whether an institution is in Wales. Interestingly, I suspect that the higher percentage at the university of Glamorgan reflects a pattern that is typical of some more modern universities. Even so, a substantial block of English students come to Wales, because they have that as the best option for them.
In the Bill, we are giving the Assembly the power to set different grant levels and to have a Welsh loan regime, so we must give full consideration to the implications of that.