Clause 23 - Condition that may be required to be imposed by English funding bodies
Higher Education Bill
3:00 pm
Mr Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell, Conservative)
I suspect, Mr. Hood, that if I were to congratulate Exeter university I would be out of order. However, any initiative taken by the university sector to fulfil the goal of widening participation would be a good thing, and we would support and encourage any institution that independently and autonomously sought to pursue such a route.
The point of the debate is to clarify what else universities can or cannot do. For the first time, the Government will be allowed to impose their own admission strategies on universities, which will have an impact on university finances. My hon. Friend the Member for Daventry sensibly says that universities may seek alternative funding if their strategies do not meet the aspirations and gain the approval of the Government and regulator. He rightly wants to find out how much flexibility the Minister will allow universities, given that the 1998 Act and later provisions of the Bill specifically curtail the right of universities to levy fees and, in some circumstances, to levy irregular fees.
What is the Government's intention? Will they allow universities total flexibility to charge for services provided, except in a limited number of cases, or, given that they can pass further regulations to extend the powers in this part of the Bill, do they intend to be stringent in what universities can and cannot charge for, with a pretty clear dividing line between the two?
I congratulate my hon. Friend on highlighting the issue. It must be addressed. The Minister's answer should be on the record. We need to understand what the Government's intentions are, and I look forward to hearing his comments.
The Minister for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education (Alan Johnson): I welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Hood.
I thank the hon. Member for Daventry. He said that he had a number of confessions to make. I thought that one of them might be that he was trying to help the Government, because that was his very next comment, but his confessions were more about being a nerd or an anorak, and having an oblique mind.
I am genuinely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for probing. I hope that it is a probing amendment. Although it is in tune with an early debate about possible loopholes, it is unnecessary. It has a serious technical flaw and could lead to confusion. It mentions ''after consultation'' but does not say who is to be consulted. It also states ''impose such requirements'' but does not say who is to impose them. The spirit of the debate is about whether clause 38, the sister clause to clause 23, is sufficient. We believe that it is.
The hon. Gentleman asked what has happened since 1998 and whether we have had any problems. We have had no problems, which is why we want to repeat the wording. He was right to ask why the wording was different in the Learning and Skills Act 2000, in which we changed the word ''attending'' a course to ''undertaking'' a course in higher education. That was important because it covered a broader range of courses. However, clause 38 sets out what fees are, and what they are not, for the purposes of the Bill. That provision has stood the test of time and worked well. I counsel the Committee against changing it, although I realise that he thought his amendment would be helpful.
The hon. Gentleman asked about board and lodging. That is not regulated and we have no wish to regulate it. It is the same for sports facilities, which the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) mentioned, and ICT facilities, which should properly be part of the fee if they are part of the course, as clause 38 makes clear. The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough also raised that. If such facilities are an optional add-on, students have the choice of paying that. I appreciate that in some cases an undergraduate in their first year might be told that the board and lodgings were part of the offer, but the provisions are about enabling students to pick and choose where they study. It is not in the interests of higher education institutions to pull such strokes and ramp up the board and lodging so much that students are deterred either from going to that university if the board and lodging is compulsory or from using it if there is a choice of student accommodation.
I was puzzled by the reference to former students. I thought that it might be a provision to help graduates with their CVs, or something of that nature, but the hon. Member for Daventry linked it to a graduation ceremony.