Clause 22 - Power of Secretary of State to impose condition as to student fees, etc.
Higher Education Bill
4:45 pm
Mr Tim Boswell (Daventry, Conservative)
These amendments need not detain the Committee for too long. In introducing them I will pick up on a remark made by the Minister, which I think was meant to be complimentary, describing me as part of the cavalry. That was awfully pukka because my role in the Committee is to act as a slight disclaimer to my Front Benchers. I regard myself more as special forces, operating from the mountains of the Back Benches and definitely not in uniform. It is in that spirit that I tabled amendment No. 258.
The amendment is a genuine attempt to help Ministers at least to elucidate their policies and possibly to achieve a greater degree of flexibility. I hope that the Minister will not say—I am sure he will not—that the amendment in some way rows back from our overall opposition to his policies, which we confirm. However, if we are going to have this bitter pill, let it at least be properly sugared and presented.
The specific impact of my two amendments, which assiduous readers will have realised are on the same point, would be to include in the definition of a ''funding body'',
''any other higher education funding body designated by the Secretary of State.''
My amendments concern the supply of the money, whereas my hon. Friend's amendments are in relation to the recipients of the money. The Minister and everyone on the Committee will know that there are only two funding bodies: the HEFC, set up under the 1992 Act, and the Teacher Training Agency, set up during my time discharging the Minister's office.
My amendment would give Ministers the flexibility to set up another agency, if they were so inclined and for some reason it was not appropriate or sensible to produce primary legislation to do so. Without re-entering the Welsh debate, in cases where an institution was co-funded, it might be convenient for Ministers to be able to include another agency in the framework, or even in certain cases to devolve the powers of the TTA or the HEFC to some third party. At this stage of the evening we had better not get into the outsourcing argument, but it might just be sensible to have a little flexibility. That is the spirit in which the amendment is tendered to the Minister, and I would be grateful for his response to it.
Before I sit down, may I say a word or two about my hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale's amendments? These probing amendments are at the recipient end, and relate to the relevant institutions. The Minister will forgive me if I am a little less well briefed than my Front-Bench colleagues on this matter, but it would certainly help me to sleep well tonight if he could tell me the relevance of institutions that are not designated under the 1992 Act as ''higher education institutions'' which nevertheless carry out elements of higher education—including, for example, FE colleges which deliver higher education, a matter
we discussed in a different context on Tuesday. Does this clause secure any handle on their activities, including their access activities, in respect of higher education, for example foundation degrees?
My second question is somewhat different. There are still institutions firmly within the private sector, but which have students whose funding comes partly from the public sector. I am thinking historically of the Royal Agricultural College, which eventually went back into the public sector and is HEFC funded. However, there are other specialist institutions, such as, traditionally, colleges of chiropody, although I am not as up to date as I should be on this. They do not receive HEFC money, but some of the students receive
student support because it is felt to be desirable to give them some matching support. I am not clear whether Ministers are seeking to impose conditions on those private sector institutions—of course all universities are private, but these are not even within the HEFC funded sector—on the grounds that some students' money is publicly funded. That needs considering at some stage in the Bill and I would be grateful if, after my hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale has spoken on his amendments, the Minister might be able to respond.
Debate adjourned.—[Derek Twigg.]
Adjourned accordingly at six minutes to Five o'clock till Tuesday 24 February at ten minutes past Nine o'clock.