Clause 2 - Power to create combined fire and rescue authorities
Fire and Rescue Services Bill
10:00 am
Mr Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)
I have some sympathy with the underlying sentiment that the hon. Gentleman has expressed. Throughout the debate on the modernisation of the fire service, the Government have argued that changes are principally about improving fire safety and reducing fire deaths rather than about saving money. I will spare Ministers the agony of having to go through the catalogue of reduced Government targets that tend to undermine that claim. We should not pursue that point any further, as it was adequately dealt with on Second Reading.
However, there is a problem with public perception. Ministers must surely be aware that the public are cynical about Government exercises in reconfiguring public services. The public will be inclined to see such changes as cuts if there is any opportunity to do so, and the changes required as integrated risk management programmes are implemented could be portrayed locally as cuts.
The Minister will be aware that some people will have an interest in portraying the changes as cuts. I am not thinking of Opposition Members, as there are people at different levels in the fire service who are not completely sold on the modernisation agenda. I have received mail-in postcards from firefighters and their supporters in my constituency, arguing pre-emptively that closing or downgrading certain fire stations as a result of integrated risk management plans would represent a cut in a public service. I am sure that other hon. Members have had the same experience.
The problem of perception in presenting changes in delivery that are supposed to be about improving safety and service has been heightened by the fact that
the Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Prime Minister have repeatedly said that the pay settlement awarded to the firefighters after the strikes at the end of 2002 has to be self-financing from the savings derived from modernisation. In other words, they defined the modernisation process as one that would produce cash savings to meet the firefighters' pay settlement. That gives rise to real concerns about the balance between economies to be derived and the intention to use the modernisation process to improve safety. We should also consider how fire authorities see the situation.