Clause 15 - ''Pay'' and other matters subject to collective bargaining
Employment Relations Bill
4:15 pm
Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk, Conservative)
The clause is important. New paragraph 171A(1) makes it clear that
''In this Schedule 'pay' does not include terms relating to a person's membership of or rights under, or his employer's contributions to—
(a) an occupational pension scheme . . . or
(b) a personal pension scheme''.
The clause excludes from the list of subjects that are part of the collective bargaining process pension schemes, personal or occupational. We touched on this on Second Reading. If there was not agreement across the Chamber, there was at least recognition that to bring pensions into collective bargaining would complicate matters and make collective bargaining
much more elaborate. In spite of all the pension crises, this would not be the right way to try to solve the problem. That was the essence of the discussion on Second Reading, although some Government Back Benchers were understandably pushing Ministers on the matter.
Pensions are a red hot issue. A company in my constituency, a former subsidiary of Albert Fisher Group plc, Fisher Frozen Foods, went into liquidation and was bought from the receiver by a Belgian company. We had the perverse situation in which people who retired when the company went into receivership were entitled to their full pension, even though they were only in their early 50s, while the pensions of those who stayed on with the company are being cut by about 40 to 50 per cent. It is perfectly obvious that there are real problems.
The T and G and I have discussed that matter at some length. Even the T and G takes on board the point that, if pensions were brought into the whole collective bargaining process, it would be complicated. It is difficult to see how it could be achieved in a way that was completely fair.