New clause 22 - Definition of manslaughter
Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Bill [Lords]
5:00 pm
Ms Vera Baird (Redcar, Labour)
With that, I turn to the comments of my hon. Friend the Minister. I have heard them before, as he has heard my remarks before, in an Adjournment debate, but there we are; they are no worse for repetition. I was puzzled then, as I am now, about why he thinks that there is a move from an excusatory model to a justificatory model. As I understand it, both are both. The justification is the provocative conduct and the excusatory aspect is that the person lost their self-control. Both elements are present in the old model and the new model; there is no change.
The Minister is not alone in this view—I think that the Attorney-General shares it—but I have never understood why a gangland killer could plead the defence of fear of serious violence. Such a fear would not, in the view of any sensible jury, qualify as something that caused the defendant to have a justifiable sense of being seriously wronged. The Minister's argument is not tenable once we consider in more detail the extras over and above just the fear of serious violence.
The model is a good one and it will not significantly change. Of course, persuaded by the ever-persuasive Minister, I shall seek to withdraw the motion, but we
should return to the new clause as quickly as possible, because injustice is being caused. The new clause is a recipe for remedying that, and all we need is another opportunity to peruse it thoroughly and to embody it in legislation. I hope that that can occur, but at this stage I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn.