Clause 19 - Power to require documents and information
Companies (Audit, Investigations and Community Enterprise) Bill [Lords]
9:30 am
Mr Andrew Mitchell (Shadow Minister, Economic Affairs; Sutton Coldfield, Conservative)
I listened with care to the Minister, and we will read what she said, as it will be on the record, and consider which issues we shall return to on Report and Third Reading. The issue is not about her reasonable interpretation of the words in the Bill. We are clear that she is a reasonable Minister who listens to representations that she receives and would exercise the considerable powers judiciously. The issue is not about this Minister or this ministerial team at the DTI—indeed, as I said on Tuesday when discussing auditor liability, I would like to come along and support them in their negotiations with the Treasury. However, what would happen if there were a serious problem and lawyers were examining the legislation? An official who may not be as temperate as the Minister and may not have the same balanced approach to life, could get hold of the powers in the Bill. If someone asked them, ''Why are you doing this?'' they could reply, ''You can't question me; I think I should be doing it, and that is why I am doing it.''
Parliament should be careful about giving excessive powers to officials, when the reasonableness of Ministers beguiles Committees such as this to allow the legislation through. As I listened to the Minister's honeyed words, I realised that she was putting the most scurrilous argument when she said that it was better to keep investigations secret from those being investigated. It is as if I were investigating you, Mr. Conway, in pursuit of your actions as director of a CIC, but not telling you why. The Minister said that it was better to keep the reasons from the person being investigated; otherwise unfair and inaccurate allegations might be brought before more people. But what on earth happens when someone goes to court and is tried for an offence? That is an exact parallel. I am sure that when we have looked carefully at the Minister's arguments, we will want to return to these matters on Report.
Among the 14 or so excellent and hard-working officials from the Minister's Department in the Committee Room this morning, there are perhaps representatives from the Home Office. The Home Office, which will be watching the Committee's attitude towards the community interest companies, will also know of the read-across to the charitable incorporated organisations—the CIOs—that appear in the draft Charities Bill, and were raised on Second Reading. In view of your past outside this House, Mr. Conway, you will be an expert on that area.
Without breaching the confidentiality of the Joint Committee on the draft Charities Bill, the scrutiny report from which will be published on 30 September—I had the honour to serve as the only Conservative MP on it—I can tell hon. Members that it takes a view on giving people information about CIO investigations different from that taken by the Department of Trade and Industry on CIC investigations. The Minister should think again about those arguments, and I hope that she will have the opportunity to do so on Report.
The next group of amendments, which would affect clause 21, are similar to, and as important as, the ones that we have already discussed, so in view of that, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 19 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 20 ordered to stand part of the Bill.