Clause 22 - Limitations of emergency regulations
Civil Contingencies Bill
2:30 pm
Mr Richard Allan (Shadow Spokesperson for the Cabinet Office, Cabinet Office; Sheffield, Hallam, Liberal Democrat)
I beg to move amendment No. 103, in
clause 22, page 15, line 38, leave out 'three' and insert 'one'.
We seek to explore and test the limits of the emergency regulations, specifically in respect of offences that can be created and the penalties that can be applied under them. In order to provoke a debate and test the provision, we have suggested that the maximum penalty available for any offences committed under clause 21(3)(i) should be reduced from three months to one month. They are offences of failing to comply with the regulations or otherwise obstructing them.
This important provision needs to be highlighted in order to reassure the public about the nature of the emergency regulations. One of the biggest concerns is that people could be incarcerated indefinitely and all sorts of penalties applied. My reading of the way in which the various clauses work together is that there are limited powers in respect of anything that can be done to people who breach the emergency regulations. I wish to test the circumstances under which the offences could be invoked.
We must consider whether, in the kind of circumstances that have been described to date—for example, an emergency in which people must be prevented from entering or forced to leave an area—several offences could be committed during an incident in which an individual refuses to comply with the regulations. They might refuse to comply with the emergency regulations but might also be causing an affray, engaging in violent disorder or causing a breach of the peace. We are interested in the interaction of the offence of refusing to respect the regulations with other offences.
My hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmichael) and I had a discussion earlier that was educational for me and would have been educational for the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), but not, I suspect, for the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. We were discussing the concept in Scottish law of thole an assize, which means that someone who has been prosecuted for one offence cannot be prosecuted for another offence that takes place during the same incident. Clearly, that would be relevant in this debate. If the Minister can stretch himself to English and Welsh law as well, I would be interested in how the regulations relate to that concept and how the legal process would work if
someone were in breach of several different regulations.
We talked about circumstances in which people refuse to move, or move where they should not. Other circumstances were described earlier; for example, around animal welfare and animal husbandry, when there were clear instances of individuals refusing to comply with the Government's requirements to destroy their animals. They took the matter to court, and some found judgment in their favour. Clearly, in a future incident, if powers were brought into play through the regulations set out in the Bill, someone might have a legal difficulty under animal welfare legislation but also under the regulations. Again, the interaction between the various pieces of law is what will be most important to individual members of the public.
I hope that the Minister can provide some clarification about when and how offences might be prosecuted, particularly how they relate to tholed assizes, or the English equivalent, which is the inability to prosecute twice for what is effectively the same set of circumstances, and in doing so give us an assurance that where a more grievous offence has been committed, it is the more grievous offence in normal law that is prosecuted, not the less grievous offence under the emergency regulations.