Clause 23 - ''Scheme year'' and ''target year''
Waste and Emissions Trading Bill [Lords]
10:00 am
Mr John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings, Conservative)
The amendments return us to the derogations, which we debated earlier, which the Government can take advantage of in meeting the tough targets under the Bill. It is a matter of debate whether we should apply for those derogations, and we held such a debate during the Committee's first sitting. I fully acknowledge what the Minister said about the targets being testing. It may be appropriate again to consider the change of culture that will be required to meet those targets. In some respects, that will be a significant hurdle for local authorities that are not yet up to speed in terms of dealing properly and effectively with waste. I suspect that the Bill, as a legislative instrument, will not simply be a stick for local authorities but will stimulate creative thinking. In the end, it may be quite a positive force and may make authorities think again about how they deal with such matters, about the rules that they draw up and about the culture that they adopt. I am therefore rather optimistic about its repercussions.
Notwithstanding that optimism, it is important to emphasise that the targets are onerous. There must be absolute clarity about whether we shall be forward thinking and ambitious, and about taking the necessary steps in the time set down for us or apply for extra time. When the Committee first met, the Minister said that we would probably need to apply for more time in the early stages because of where we were starting from. Our 1995 levels—our historical position in this regard—are not as good as they might be; they certainly do not compare favourably with those in the rest of Europe. We landfill more waste than other European countries do. As we heard at the beginning of today's discussions, the problem is exacerbated by the growth in the number of households and in the amount of waste generated. Those are separate issues, but both are relevant to our discussions. The problem, therefore, is not simply that we are starting from a level at which we do not want to start, but that the trend when it comes to changing the culture in the way that I described is not a healthy one.
None the less, we need clarity, which is why we are probing the issue of derogations once again. The Committee should be under no illusion that Opposition Members are looking to wreck the Bill or to undermine its intent. I assure hon. Members that the amendments are not designed to do that, even though they might be taken as a political attempt to do so. They are intended to probe the Minister on precisely where he stands as regards the dates and deadlines. He has been frank with us about the targets and about the likelihood of achieving them. As he said, however, we must achieve them; we have no choice about that. The penalties for not meeting them are extremely significant.
Our mutual aim is to be rigorous and demanding when it comes to those whose culture needs to change. That is why we need to have clarity, to send the right signals and to be absolutely straight about when and
how people must reach the destination that we all want them to reach. That is why we have once again probed the issue of derogations and asked the Minister to be absolutely firm and clear about where he sees us going and about the time scale.