Clause 26 - Penalties under Chapter 1: General
Waste and Emissions Trading Bill [Lords]
10:45 am
Mr Norman Baker (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)
I am grateful for that intervention, which reinforces what I said. It further reinforces a point that I made on Second Reading, when I painted a scenario in which, notwithstanding the derogations that may come into force, the targets may be missed by some or all waste disposal authorities. Given the step-change that has to be made, that is not inconceivable.
The authorities would then argue for the penalties to be waived or put off, saying to the Minister, ''If you enforce the penalties under clause 26(3), you will take away money for recycling and further reduce our ability to meet the targets. We are in a downward spiral, and you will make it worse. You will deprive us of the means to do what you want. You must let us off the penalties.'' I can imagine such conversations taking place in three or four years and the authorities queuing up at the Minister's door.
Subsection (1)(c) is an admission by the Government that many waste disposal authorities may not meet their targets, that penalties will be incurred and that they may have to be waived. Why else include a provision that could allow the Minister to override subsection (3)? Why else override the rules for calculating the penalty? Why else override the provisions on when penalties are due? Why are those provisions all being negated?
The answer is that the Minister wants an escape clause should the whole thing go pear-shaped, but that is not the right message to send to waste disposal authorities. They know that targets have been set but that, if they are not met, the penalties can be watered down. That is not what we should be saying to the authorities. They must be under no illusion: all penalties incurred under the rules must be met. The amendment, which my hon. Friend the Member for Guildford and I have tabled, sets a maximum leeway of 12 months, which is pretty generous. I cannot foresee any circumstances in which there would have to be any extension beyond 12 months. I hope that the Minister takes that point on board.
The Minister is sending out the wrong message with subsection (1)(c), which is that the targets and the thrust of the Bill can be fatally undermined. If he concludes that waste disposals authorities do not have the powers, funds, wherewithal or whatever else to meet the targets, the answer to the conundrum is to set up a special fund or to provide extra funding by local authority-Office of the Deputy Prime Minister channelling. The way to help waste disposal authorities that do not meet their targets cannot be to let them off their penalties, which would be fatal.