Clause 24 - Enactment establishing assemblies immaterial
Regional Assemblies (Preparations) Bill
6:45 pm

Mr Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)

I beg to move amendment No. 87, in

clause 24, page 12, leave out line 33 and insert 'This Act shall not come into force until there is in force an enactment conferring'.

Mr Joe Benton (Bootle, Labour)

With this it will be convenient to take Amendment No. 88, in

clause 25, page 12, line 38, leave out subsection (2).

Mr Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)

The amendment concerns the clause that deals with the Act coming into force. The clause says:

''For the purposes of this Act it is immaterial whether any enactment confers power on the Secretary of State to establish elected assemblies for regions.''

The argument is familiar and I will not try the Committee's patience by rehearsing it. We object to the principle of a pre-legislative referendum in this matter. The amendment proposes that the wording be amended to say that the Act

''shall not come into force until there is in force an enactment conferring'',

power on the Secretary of State to establish elected assemblies for the regions. That would mean that the Minister could go around the country and convincingly wave not his White Paper but an Act of Parliament that set out precisely the powers and functions of regional assemblies, and the limitations on those powers and functions. I suggest to the Minister that if he has confidence in the edifice that he proposes to construct, he has nothing to fear and

everything to gain from being transparent about how it would work.

The connection between amendments Nos. 88 and 87 puzzles me. Amendment No. 88 would leave out subsection (2)—[Interruption.] I am told that it is entirely consequential. If the clause is amended in the way in which amendment No. 87 proposes, amendment No. 88 would simply be the appropriate consequential amendment to clause 25—I think.

Mr Christopher Leslie (Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office; Shipley, Labour)

The hon. Gentleman finished his remarks from a sedentary position with the two words, ''I think'', which I hope the record will reflect as an indication of his view.

Amendment No. 87 would stop anything being done under the Bill until legislation were in place that enabled elected regional assemblies to be established. The whole point of the amendment, therefore, is that it would in effect negate the clause. That is clearly a delaying tactic to prevent the referendum from taking place. It is clear to the public and all concerned what the consequences would be of voting in a referendum.

There is sufficient information about the shape of elected regional assemblies not only in the White Paper, but in the commitment that we gave to pre-referendum definitive statements, which could set out the proposals, the work of an assembly and the shape of unitarisation. There is also plenty of precedent in the same two-stage approach of a referendum followed by enactment of the Bill to enable an assembly to be set up. That was used adequately in the London arrangements and in Scotland and Wales.

Amendment No. 88 would prevent parts 2 and 4 from commencing the parts on the local government review and the funding for regional chambers until two months after, rather than on, enactment. That is splitting hairs and, more particularly, it is another way of trying to delay work on the local government review and activity on the regional chambers, which is not desirable. The Bill provides for those matters to be dealt with as soon and as quickly as possible, which is what most reasonable people would want. I urge the Committee to reject the amendments.

Mr Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)

We are clearly not going to agree on pre-legislative referendums. However, I anticipate from looking at the provisional selection for tomorrow that the matter will be debated on the Floor of the House. We therefore do not need to detain the Committee any longer tonight. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 24 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 25 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Further consideration adjourned.—[Mr. Woolas.]

Adjourned accordingly at three minutes past Seven o'clock till Thursday 19 December at five minutes to Nine o'clock.