Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold, Conservative)

I seek your guidance, Mr. Conway. Clause 42 is the paving clause and schedule 2 provides the detail, so would it be in order to debate the two together, even if we have to take any votes separately, if it comes to that?

Mr Derek Conway (Old Bexley & Sidcup, Conservative)

Yes. I should be relaxed about that, if it enables the Committee to make progress.

Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold, Conservative)

That is very helpful, Mr. Conway.

Clause 42 is the paving clause, which provides for local government reports for police and other authorities in Wales. Schedule 2 is important because it sets out the entire financing provision made by the Welsh Assembly to each Welsh local authority. I want to ask the Under-Secretary of State for Wales several questions. How will the Welsh Assembly set out its proposals, publish them, pay for them, recalculate them and amend them? The schedule does not appear to include any power of appeal for local authorities, but surely there must be an appeal mechanism or some form of consultation to put right any mistakes made by the Welsh Assembly because it will not get it right in every case. Some mechanism is needed whereby each local authority can make additional representations once the financial settlement has been published. Finally, will bodies have recourse to the High Court for judicial review against decisions of the Welsh Assembly with which they are aggrieved?

Mr Don Touhig (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Welsh Office; Islwyn, Labour/Co-operative)

Clause 42, which introduces schedule 2, is an important part of the provision in relation to Wales. The Welsh Assembly gave a commitment, in its policy statement on local government freedom and responsibility, to look at ways of continuously improving the publication timetable of local government finance reports. As a former councillor and chairman of a finance committee in my county, I certainly appreciate that.

One of the ways of achieving that policy objective is to provide an option for the Welsh Assembly to produce one report for police authorities and one report for other authorities and bodies. That is because waiting for information about police funding to become available from the Home Office often delays the publication of all authority reports until the end of January. In my experience, that has certainly been the case. That option will meet the Assembly's policy

objective and provide greater certainty and stability for police authorities in Wales.

The hon. Gentleman asked several questions about the provision. In particular, he asked how the budget would be paid for. Of course, the Government provide a block grant to the Assembly, which covers all its expenditure, and, under its own arrangements, the Assembly determines what its budget will be. Each year, the Assembly Finance Minister presents a budget to the Assembly, which is debated and approved by the Assembly in a two-stage process—a preliminary presentation and a final budget—so the whole process is transparent. As in other parts of the country, negotiations take place between local government associations and the Assembly Administration about what support for local authorities should be provided.

On the question of appeals against decisions of the Assembly regarding allocations to local authorities or the police, discussions tend to be ongoing. When I was sitting on the other side, as a local council finance chairman, I was often unhappy with the settlements that were agreed, especially when the hon. Gentleman's party was in power and when one particular Secretary of State held office. We tried to reach agreement, but ultimate responsibility then lay with the Government—it now rests with the Assembly—to determine local government expenditure. There is no formal structure of appeal against decisions of the Assembly.

Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold, Conservative)

The only point that the Minister did not answer is whether individual bodies will have the right to go to the High Court for judicial review.

Mr Don Touhig (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Welsh Office; Islwyn, Labour/Co-operative)

I cannot honestly answer that question. An authority should consider such a review if it feels that it has been unjustly supported or funded by the Assembly at any time.

Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold, Conservative)

With respect, the Minister has answered a different question. I asked whether each body would have the right to a judicial review, not whether they should seek one. Will there be a procedure in which they have the right?

Mr Don Touhig (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Welsh Office; Islwyn, Labour/Co-operative)

There is no provision as far as I am aware, but any authority that feels that it is not fairly and justly treated could obviously take legal advice to determine whether there were any legal mechanisms by which it could appeal against a decision about funding provided by the Assembly.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 42 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 2 agreed to.