Mr Derek Conway (Old Bexley & Sidcup, Conservative)

I am sure that the Minister for Local Government and the Regions can think of no better way to mark his birthday than to be with us in Committee. I congratulate him and the hon. Member for Burton (Mrs. Dean) on a very special day. We will try to make it enjoyable for them.

Mr Philip Hammond (Runnymede & Weybridge, Conservative)

On a point of order, Mr. Conway. You may have read speculation in the press about the possibility of a challenge by the Fire Brigades Union to the Government's proposal to bring forward in Committee an amendment repealing section 19 of the Fire Services Act 1947. I understand that the basis of that challenge would be that the Government failed to carry out the necessary adequate consultation before making legislative proposals.

One way to air the issues behind this particular legislative proposal adequately and thus perhaps to head off a judicial review challenge would be for adequate time to be provided in this Committee for the consideration of any proposed Government new clause. Have you had any approach from any members of the Committee about the possibility of reconvening the Programming Sub-Committee to ensure that adequate time is available to debate any such Government new clause? It would allow the Government to protect themselves against the charge of bringing forward measures that have not been adequately reviewed and considered.

Mr Edward Davey (Kingston & Surbiton, Liberal Democrat)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Conway. I support what the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) has said. The Programming Sub-Committee should meet to consider the point he makes. It is important that these matters are fully considered so that a judicial review can be headed off. May I further add that it would be helpful if the Government could table early any related new clauses so that they could be considered by the Committee and others outside it well before we debate them formally? While we suspect that the new clause will be simple, it should be before the House as early as possible.

Mr Derek Conway (Old Bexley & Sidcup, Conservative)

Clearly what the courts do is not a matter for me in the Chair. However, I am sure that the usual channels will have noted what has been said. If there is request to reconvene the Programming Sub-Committee the Chair will co-operate with that.

Mr Nick Raynsford (Minister of State (Local and Regional Government), Office of the Deputy Prime Minister; Greenwich & Woolwich, Labour)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Conway. First, may I thank you for your kind good wishes on this auspicious day? Secondly, as the Committee will be aware, the timetable for the Committee proceedings was announced in the full

knowledge that the Government intended to move the repeal of parts of section 19 of the Fire Brigades Act and that was certainly taken into account in the timetabling. The judicial proceedings, which we believe are unjustified and without merit, do not hinge on whether the Committee has sufficient time to debate the issue. I honestly do not believe that hon. Members' request for additional time to debate this would have any bearing on the judicial proceedings if they were to be countenanced.