Clause 67 - Associate members and their guests
Licensing Bill [Lords]
4:00 pm
Dr Kim Howells (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Culture, Media & Sport; Pontypridd, Labour)
Clause 67 provides that references to guests of club members include associate members of the club and guests of associate members of the club and further provides that a person is an associate member of the club, for the purposes of the Bill, if,
''in accordance with the rules of the club, he is admitted to its premises as being a member of another club, and . . . that other club is a recognised club''.
A recognised club is one that satisfies the first three conditions set out in clause 62, as we have agreed.
Amendment No. 205 would change the definition of ''associate member'', requiring that to qualify as such, a person would have to have been a member of the other club for at least two days and that the committee or sub-committee responsible for the supply of alcohol was satisfied that the primary purpose of that other club was not the supply or purchase of alcohol. The amendment would therefore prevent any member of a club whose primary purpose was the sale of alcohol from being an associate member of another club.
I am afraid that I am at a loss to understand the amendment's intention. Let me say once again that the expanded definition of ''guest'' for the purposes of part 4 of the Bill is not a backdoor through which a club can supply alcohol to its members without the need for a club premises certificate or a premises licence. A recognised club is not a guest. Under existing law, members of clubs are able to use associated clubs. As we have heard, a member of a miners' welfare institute in Wales can use another miners' welfare institute when visiting England if the rules of that institute permit that admittance. That seems sensible. It reflects the community role of such clubs and the fact that, traditionally, clubs knit together nationally, not only at local level.
The point that the hon. Member for North Devon (Nick Harvey) made was important. I know for a fact that members of all manner of clubs, including railway clubs and many others, enjoy a pint when, for example, they visit a seaside resort by going into a club. Often, they feel that they are getting a better deal than they might get in another licensed premises, although that is not always the case. The amendment would prevent anyone who is a member of a club whose primary purpose is the sale of alcohol—which includes a great many registered clubs at present—from being treated as an associate member of another club. The Government do not agree that curtailment of the extent to which members of qualifying clubs can use the facilities of other, associated qualifying clubs is justified. Nor do they think it appropriate to prescribe the rules of a club in the Bill, except where that is necessary to impose a qualifying standard for clubs that wish to take advantage of its provisions. I can see no such necessity here. The scheme set out in the Bill reflects closely the position in existing legislation on clubs, which has operated well for a number of years. I therefore hope that the amendment will not be pressed.