Clause 18 - Application for premises licence
Licensing Bill [Lords]
4:30 pm
Dr Kim Howells (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Culture, Media & Sport; Pontypridd, Labour)
As I said, the licensing authority consults its experts—the responsible bodies that we spoke about. If those experts, whether the police, the health and safety people or the fire authority decide that a capacity limit should be imposed, they can set one.
I have been touring the country looking at various types of establishments. For example, in seaside towns at certain times of the year, an upstairs room in a pub might be used for entertainment or as an overflow area. They are often subject to strict limits that are strictly policed because of fire problems and somebody must be employed to click people in and out ensure that the limit is not exceeded. If it is, those responsible can be fined a large sum or even sent to jail for putting customers in danger. We are certainly not trying to exclude the ability to set capacity limits if the licensing authority sees fit.
The Bill is intended to be flexible—licensing authorities will be able to attach capacity limits as conditions to licences when expert opinion believes that is necessary. Given that other controls are also in place, we certainly do not want to place undue burdens on the industry. The Bill contains appropriate safeguards to ensure public safety, prevent crime, disorder and nuisance, and protect children from harm. The hon. Member for North Devon asked about the examination of fire regulations being undertaken by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. I can reassure him that we are in full discussion with the ODPM, because these are important matters for protecting the public. That has got to be the primary concern, but, as I said in earlier debates, we must ensure that there is no abuse of powers that might arise as a consequence of new fire regulations, which might give the opportunity for stamping out or dissuading the holder of licences from putting on live entertainment. We must get the balance right.