Schedule 1 - Provision of regulated amendments
Licensing Bill [Lords]
2:30 pm
Mr Nick Harvey (North Devon, Liberal Democrat)
I shall address some remarks to amendments Nos. 116 and 115, which stand in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Mr. Sanders). Let me say at the outset that I agree with the remarks of the hon. Member for North-East Cambridgeshire (Mr. Moss) in moving this group of amendments. As yet, we have not heard from the Government why we need to license music and entertainment at all. I will not go
over all the same ground. The hon. Gentleman went through the other forms of regulation that already exist: noise abatement, environmental health departments, health and safety, fire and so on.
What is it that necessitates this extra form of regulation? Why is it that they do not feel the need for it in Scotland—and the world does not seem to have ended there as a result—but we persevere with it in England and Wales? I am not convinced that we need to get into these realms of regulation at all. If the Bill was to achieve some of the deregulatory objectives that it sets for itself, the Government would have taken this opportunity to follow the Scottish example.
We tabled the two amendments, one on live and the other on recorded music, because we need to hear the Government's interpretation of the amendment on incidental music that was passed in the other place, which they have reformulated for us here. If it is the Government's interpretation that the performing of music in a pub is incidental to the main business of serving alcohol, that is a significant breakthrough. It was our fear that fewer venues would host live music in the future, but it may not be as bad as we initially supposed. However, I have not yet heard the Government confirm that that is their view. We shall come to that in a few minutes. If that is not their interpretation, the two amendments—other ways of skinning the same cat—introduced by Conservative Members will be very necessary. Otherwise, as I said on Second Reading and as was said this morning, we are replacing the two-in-a-bar rule with a none-in-the-bar rule. If we are, that would be a retrograde step and there will be a danger of killing live music, particularly in pubs.
Landlords will be reluctant to tick the entertainment box entitling them to hold live music events if they think that it may raise queries about their entire licence and that residents in the area may put forward objections that would put the licence in doubt. That could mean that far fewer pubs and clubs will be willing to apply for a licence and serve as a venue for musical events. I hope that the Government will clear that up for us this afternoon.
Amendment No. 115 would remove the phrase
''any playing of recorded music''.
The amendment would enable those who play live but want the backing of pre-recorded music to do just that. Some musicians use background harmonies, or a drum or piano track, to improve the quality of their performance, which was one of the ideas that we had in mind when tabling the amendment. The amendments approach the same issue in different ways. Perhaps they can serve as probing amendments if the Government have a more comprehensive solution up their sleeve, but if not, they are very important. We need to hear from the Government what their interpretation of amendments Nos. 2 and 3, with which we shall deal later, actually is.